AS I get ready to retire for the night, it seems the USA will be in Obamas hands for the next four years. I hope I wake up and it's not true....of course I won't be happy as a matter of fact I will feel sorry that our continued debt will force us to follow others. I hope I'm wrong.
quote:Originally posted by Art Post:
AS I get ready to retire for the night, it seems the USA will be in Obamas hands for the next four years. I hope I wake up and it's not true....of course I won't be happy as a matter of fact I will feel sorry that our continued debt will force us to follow others. I hope I'm wrong.
I am with you Art. It is clear now from the exit polls that Obama's bail out of the UAW and his pandering to the typical liberal special interest groups bought him the presidency. I believe it was Benjamin Franklin who said "When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic". Seems we have two parties with extremely different visions for the country. One party says if you vote for me I will take money from one group and give it to you. The other party says vote for me and I will let you keep more of your money.
I hope that Washington will grow up and stop spending our childrens money, but I dont think that will happen. We are headed the way of the Europeon Socialist nanny state. Get ready for increased taxes and Obamacare, no turning back now.
While the Republican message clearly resonated with a lot of voters on the fiscal issues it was out of touch on many social issues.
quote:Originally posted by SalesServiceGuy:
While the Republican message clearly resonated with a lot of voters on the fiscal issues it was out of touch on many social issues.
That's because there are too many people that are receiving social services, they will vote for thier way of like. If I were on foodstamps or needed a social service then I would be a dumbass to vote for someone who will cut the cut the fat. Over the last 16 years Democtrats have been able to expand services and have more voters depenedent on the governments services,
Don't get me wrong I beleive that most of these services are good, the problem is that there are way to many people and businesses that are abusing the services and plainly put, ripping of the US. Democrats will continue to expand services to ensure that they have additional voters.
quote:Originally posted by SalesServiceGuy:
While the Republican message clearly resonated with a lot of voters on the fiscal issues it was out of touch on many social issues.
McCain was definately not a social conservative and he lost too.
I now believe that there are two things that pretty much have sealed the fate of the Republican Party...1.)The left wing media is too powerful to overcome and 2.) The social re-engineering happening in our educational institutions, lower as well as higher, have been in place long enough to indoctrinate the electorate.
quote:Originally posted by SalesServiceGuy:
While the Republican message clearly resonated with a lot of voters on the fiscal issues it was out of touch on many social issues.
How is Mitt Romney out of touch on social issues? He is one of the most moderate republicans out there. This election was not about social issues, fiscal issues topped the exit polls. Unfortunatly there are way too many people who depend on the government and they are not going to vote against the thier self interest. More people are now in the wagon then pulling the wagon.
quote:Originally posted by Art Post:
Don't get me wrong I beleive that most of these services are good, the problem is that there are way to many people and businesses that are abusing the services and plainly put, ripping of the US.
That's the issue I'd really like to see addressed. Let's implement a one-strike policy. You knowingly defraud the government, you get blacklisted.
The Republican party was out of touch on women's issues, Gay Rights, Blacks, Latinos, environmentalists, Foreign affairs and young people.
Romney being a devout Mormon did not help.
The Republicans did appeal to white males 35+ years old.
Romney being a devout Mormon did not help.
The Republicans did appeal to white males 35+ years old.
There was a two million vote gap in the popular vote...obviously more appeal than just white males 35+.
You say out of touch with gay rights and environmentalists...well yea, that is th platform, that was the point. I disagree on the Foreign Affairs. The blacks, nothing the Republicans can say or do could have changed that. I feel the Democrats pandered to the Latinos just to get their vote by ignoring the issue of illegals and immigration just like they ignored the debt, the defecit, a nuclear Iran, an insolvant Social Security, and 4 dead in Bengazi...
By the way, you left off of your list the druggies. The Republicans also are out of touch with those who want to legalize marijuana.
You say out of touch with gay rights and environmentalists...well yea, that is th platform, that was the point. I disagree on the Foreign Affairs. The blacks, nothing the Republicans can say or do could have changed that. I feel the Democrats pandered to the Latinos just to get their vote by ignoring the issue of illegals and immigration just like they ignored the debt, the defecit, a nuclear Iran, an insolvant Social Security, and 4 dead in Bengazi...
By the way, you left off of your list the druggies. The Republicans also are out of touch with those who want to legalize marijuana.
Republican senator Lindsey Graham’s remark that there weren’t enough “angry white guys” to bring Republicans to power seemed prophetic in the light of President Barack Obama’s victory.
A decline in the number of white voters and a surge in voters from ethnic minorities and women helped Obama on election night. Ohio, one of the key battleground states, was captured in part through a rise in turnout among African-Americans, who voted overwhelmingly for Obama.
Back in August, Graham had said: “The demographics race we’re losing badly. We’re not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term.”
This year is likely to be the first in recent history when the majority of babies born in the U.S. are born to families from an “ethnic minority” background. That demographic shift is already being felt at polling stations – 72 percent of those who cast their vote this year were white, down from 74 percent in 2008, according to exit polls by the Associated Press.
The Republican Party has tried to make the point that it is not just the party of white voters, via high-profile speeches at the GOP convention from Republicans of an ethnic minority background, but early signs are that it has failed to convert voters.
A decline in the number of white voters and a surge in voters from ethnic minorities and women helped Obama on election night. Ohio, one of the key battleground states, was captured in part through a rise in turnout among African-Americans, who voted overwhelmingly for Obama.
Back in August, Graham had said: “The demographics race we’re losing badly. We’re not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term.”
This year is likely to be the first in recent history when the majority of babies born in the U.S. are born to families from an “ethnic minority” background. That demographic shift is already being felt at polling stations – 72 percent of those who cast their vote this year were white, down from 74 percent in 2008, according to exit polls by the Associated Press.
The Republican Party has tried to make the point that it is not just the party of white voters, via high-profile speeches at the GOP convention from Republicans of an ethnic minority background, but early signs are that it has failed to convert voters.
All true but what would be the point of adopting the Democratic talking points. Even if the Republicans promised free healthcare, free cell phones, unlimited unemployment checks, food stamps, college education, (sex-change operations, legalized drugs...), etc. like the Democrats do you really think they would get the votes? All that would happen would be a third party which seals their fate anyway.
quote:Originally posted by SalesServiceGuy:
Republican senator Lindsey Graham’s remark that there weren’t enough “angry white guys” to bring Republicans to power seemed prophetic in the light of President Barack Obama’s victory.
A decline in the number of white voters and a surge in voters from ethnic minorities and women helped Obama on election night. Ohio, one of the key battleground states, was captured in part through a rise in turnout among African-Americans, who voted overwhelmingly for Obama.
Back in August, Graham had said: “The demographics race we’re losing badly. We’re not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term.”
This year is likely to be the first in recent history when the majority of babies born in the U.S. are born to families from an “ethnic minority” background. That demographic shift is already being felt at polling stations – 72 percent of those who cast their vote this year were white, down from 74 percent in 2008, according to exit polls by the Associated Press.
The Republican Party has tried to make the point that it is not just the party of white voters, via high-profile speeches at the GOP convention from Republicans of an ethnic minority background, but early signs are that it has failed to convert voters.
I would agree that the republican party failed to win over some minority groups. The answer is not to change the platform, but to continue to reach out to those groups. The values of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are not values that are only held by white males.
You may want to check on the exit polling with women. I read that married women went for Romney.
It is clear that Obama's pandering worked. We have the bail out of the UAW that bought Ohio and Michigan, the executive order fiat of the dream act (which the democrats would not pass) to buy the hispanic vote effecting florida and Colordo, and the whole discussion of how birth control should be paid for by health insurance companies and then there is the whole I am now for sames sex marriage "evolution" of Obama. He said and did what he needed to do to get re-elected. That is a great way to run a campaign, but not the qualities of a leader.
Here's a real horses ass that was thankful for Sandy:
Chris Matthews: 'I'm So Glad We Had That Storm Last Week' (Video)
http://www.thewrap.com/tv/colu...ast-week-video-64061
Chris Matthews: 'I'm So Glad We Had That Storm Last Week' (Video)
http://www.thewrap.com/tv/colu...ast-week-video-64061
That is one way to put it Art. Chris is so blind with his support of Obama that we does not care about anything about his re-election. Does he think? People died and a lot of people are still suffering and this guy is glad becuase it helped to re-elect his guy. His comments are disturbing. Imagine what thoughts he has that he censors himself from saying.
Art/Jrlz - go back and read what Matthews said b/c you missed his point.
This is all so very simple and easy to solve . . .
If you don't like the LEFT leaning media OR the RIGHT leaning media don't watch them (I don't)and encourage others to do the same.
If you don't believe that Climate Change is man-made and real, so be it - that's easy, now let's see what we can do about the effects of what the routine weather cycles are doing to our world since it's not man-made.
If we don't like what the DEM's are doing or the REP's then disassociate yourselves from them (I did) and quit sending them money - I mean come on, $6 billion was spent so some of you must've sent them money (I didn't) b/c there's not that many fat-cats out there are there? Are there really?
If the party you supported lost, I can only suggest you that didn't spend enough time collecting money or organizing your supporters b/c like it or not, the Community Organizer won doing what the money collectors ridiculed him for in 2007. (my guy lost but then again I didn't do a lot to help his cause).
If you think we're running off the fiscal cliff then you have to help us find an answer and there are many, many available; I'd start with Defense by limiting expenditures to 1/2 that of the rest of the world's combined expenditures - and if we can somehow refrain from sending our troops and treasure to far off lands maybe the downline costs of the Veterans Administration will be lowered; we can eliminate farm subsidies to any individual or corporation with income before expenses of $1 million - they don't need it; foreign aid to Israel and Egypt, you have to be kidding me but I'm sure there's a way to defeat the lobbying groups associated with those countries; we can raise the retirement age, gradually, to 70; modify the passed Healthcare act so that it is single-payor, a la Medicare - don't worry with all the healthy, younger folks the costs per capita will be much lower - Medicare is not cost-effective b/c only the old and infirm can participate driving up the p/c costs; from the revenue side (this is the easiest of all)raise taxes on those most able to pay them and no it's not the poor or middle class - I'd suggest we start by looking at the tax rates during the boom years of the 1950's-60's when our economic growth was second to none (when Japan was building and China was a third-world country; most importantly we need to seek out and find all the source of tax avoidance, welfare fraud, medicare fraud, business tax fraud, immigration fraud (both employers and employee alike).
This is just a starter list of course. How do we do these things you ask - CONSENSUS - but having Mr Obama tell Mr's McConnell and Boehner that unless thay agree to serious compromise then every department of the federal government with regulatory powers will come down on Kentucky and Ohio and examine very closely, just how much compliance there is by the businesses in their respective states to the various rules, regulations and tax audits.
I said it was Easy!
This is all so very simple and easy to solve . . .
If you don't like the LEFT leaning media OR the RIGHT leaning media don't watch them (I don't)and encourage others to do the same.
If you don't believe that Climate Change is man-made and real, so be it - that's easy, now let's see what we can do about the effects of what the routine weather cycles are doing to our world since it's not man-made.
If we don't like what the DEM's are doing or the REP's then disassociate yourselves from them (I did) and quit sending them money - I mean come on, $6 billion was spent so some of you must've sent them money (I didn't) b/c there's not that many fat-cats out there are there? Are there really?
If the party you supported lost, I can only suggest you that didn't spend enough time collecting money or organizing your supporters b/c like it or not, the Community Organizer won doing what the money collectors ridiculed him for in 2007. (my guy lost but then again I didn't do a lot to help his cause).
If you think we're running off the fiscal cliff then you have to help us find an answer and there are many, many available; I'd start with Defense by limiting expenditures to 1/2 that of the rest of the world's combined expenditures - and if we can somehow refrain from sending our troops and treasure to far off lands maybe the downline costs of the Veterans Administration will be lowered; we can eliminate farm subsidies to any individual or corporation with income before expenses of $1 million - they don't need it; foreign aid to Israel and Egypt, you have to be kidding me but I'm sure there's a way to defeat the lobbying groups associated with those countries; we can raise the retirement age, gradually, to 70; modify the passed Healthcare act so that it is single-payor, a la Medicare - don't worry with all the healthy, younger folks the costs per capita will be much lower - Medicare is not cost-effective b/c only the old and infirm can participate driving up the p/c costs; from the revenue side (this is the easiest of all)raise taxes on those most able to pay them and no it's not the poor or middle class - I'd suggest we start by looking at the tax rates during the boom years of the 1950's-60's when our economic growth was second to none (when Japan was building and China was a third-world country; most importantly we need to seek out and find all the source of tax avoidance, welfare fraud, medicare fraud, business tax fraud, immigration fraud (both employers and employee alike).
This is just a starter list of course. How do we do these things you ask - CONSENSUS - but having Mr Obama tell Mr's McConnell and Boehner that unless thay agree to serious compromise then every department of the federal government with regulatory powers will come down on Kentucky and Ohio and examine very closely, just how much compliance there is by the businesses in their respective states to the various rules, regulations and tax audits.
I said it was Easy!
From CNN:
"White men comprised just 34% of the electorate on Tuesday."
"The big picture is this: Democrats are continuing to win big with the demographic groups that are growing; Republicans are still struggling to increase support with shrinking base voter groups."
"White men comprised just 34% of the electorate on Tuesday."
"The big picture is this: Democrats are continuing to win big with the demographic groups that are growing; Republicans are still struggling to increase support with shrinking base voter groups."
quote:Originally posted by Chuck:
Art/Jrlz - go back and read what Matthews said b/c you missed his point.
This is all so very simple and easy to solve . . .
If you don't like the LEFT leaning media OR the RIGHT leaning media don't watch them (I don't)and encourage others to do the same.
If you don't believe that Climate Change is man-made and real, so be it - that's easy, now let's see what we can do about the effects of what the routine weather cycles are doing to our world since it's not man-made.
If we don't like what the DEM's are doing or the REP's then disassociate yourselves from them (I did) and quit sending them money - I mean come on, $6 billion was spent so some of you must've sent them money (I didn't) b/c there's not that many fat-cats out there are there? Are there really?
If the party you supported lost, I can only suggest you that didn't spend enough time collecting money or organizing your supporters b/c like it or not, the Community Organizer won doing what the money collectors ridiculed him for in 2007. (my guy lost but then again I didn't do a lot to help his cause).
If you think we're running off the fiscal cliff then you have to help us find an answer and there are many, many available; I'd start with Defense by limiting expenditures to 1/2 that of the rest of the world's combined expenditures - and if we can somehow refrain from sending our troops and treasure to far off lands maybe the downline costs of the Veterans Administration will be lowered; we can eliminate farm subsidies to any individual or corporation with income before expenses of $1 million - they don't need it; foreign aid to Israel and Egypt, you have to be kidding me but I'm sure there's a way to defeat the lobbying groups associated with those countries; we can raise the retirement age, gradually, to 70; modify the passed Healthcare act so that it is single-payor, a la Medicare - don't worry with all the healthy, younger folks the costs per capita will be much lower - Medicare is not cost-effective b/c only the old and infirm can participate driving up the p/c costs; from the revenue side (this is the easiest of all)raise taxes on those most able to pay them and no it's not the poor or middle class - I'd suggest we start by looking at the tax rates during the boom years of the 1950's-60's when our economic growth was second to none (when Japan was building and China was a third-world country; most importantly we need to seek out and find all the source of tax avoidance, welfare fraud, medicare fraud, business tax fraud, immigration fraud (both employers and employee alike).
This is just a starter list of course. How do we do these things you ask - CONSENSUS - but having Mr Obama tell Mr's McConnell and Boehner that unless thay agree to serious compromise then every department of the federal government with regulatory powers will come down on Kentucky and Ohio and examine very closely, just how much compliance there is by the businesses in their respective states to the various rules, regulations and tax audits.
I said it was Easy!
I am with you on everything but the single payer health care system. I am a conservative, but the Republican parties position on defense spending bothers me too. We spedn way too much and any talk of cuts is treated like the end of the world. We need to decrease spending on defense, stop being the world's police force and continue to bolster our militaries rapid special operations ability.
quote:Originally posted by SalesServiceGuy:
From CNN:
"White men comprised just 34% of the electorate on Tuesday."
"The big picture is this: Democrats are continuing to win big with the demographic groups that are growing; Republicans are still struggling to increase support with shrinking base voter groups."
The GOP needs to make in roads into the growing demographic bases. They need to do this by talking about thier message and not become the democrat lite party. The core message of liberty, personal responsability and personal freedom to make choices resonate with many people, regardless of demographics.
QUOTE]The GOP needs to make in roads into the growing demographic bases. They need to do this by talking about thier message and not become the democrat lite party. The core message of liberty, personal responsability and personal freedom to make choices resonate with many people, regardless of demographics.[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately a big part of the growing demographic base are people riding in the wagon, not the ones pulling it.
17 million NEW Food Stamp recipients is definately enough to sway any election. How do you suggest the Republicans go about pandering to them? I don't think liberty, personal responsability and personal freedom to make choices is going to resonate with them.
Unfortunately a big part of the growing demographic base are people riding in the wagon, not the ones pulling it.
17 million NEW Food Stamp recipients is definately enough to sway any election. How do you suggest the Republicans go about pandering to them? I don't think liberty, personal responsability and personal freedom to make choices is going to resonate with them.
Unfortunately a big part of the growing demographic base are people riding in the wagon, not the ones pulling it.
17 million NEW Food Stamp recipients is definately enough to sway any election. How do you suggest the Republicans go about pandering to them? I don't think liberty, personal responsability and personal freedom to make choices is going to resonate with them.[/QUOTE]
I hope you are not correct Old Glory. I often say that there are more people in the wagon than pulling it also, mostly out of frustration. I have faith that the human spirit wants freedom, not tyranny. Last week I thought to mself - Do communist countries have an illegal immigration problem? Do people wait for years to be admitted into a communist Eutopia like Cuba? I dont believe they do, so that must mean that human beings by nature yearn for freedom. The democratic party has become the party of socialists and communists. They are all about "shared sacrafice" and "shared prosperity". They are all about the government taking care of your needs. They live the whole from each according to his means and to each according to his needs philosophy. Dependency on the government is not freedom and deep down every knows that.
The republican party needs to focus on it's routes of limited federal government and personal freedom. I believe that with the right leadership that message will attract many to the GOP.
17 million NEW Food Stamp recipients is definately enough to sway any election. How do you suggest the Republicans go about pandering to them? I don't think liberty, personal responsability and personal freedom to make choices is going to resonate with them.[/QUOTE]
I hope you are not correct Old Glory. I often say that there are more people in the wagon than pulling it also, mostly out of frustration. I have faith that the human spirit wants freedom, not tyranny. Last week I thought to mself - Do communist countries have an illegal immigration problem? Do people wait for years to be admitted into a communist Eutopia like Cuba? I dont believe they do, so that must mean that human beings by nature yearn for freedom. The democratic party has become the party of socialists and communists. They are all about "shared sacrafice" and "shared prosperity". They are all about the government taking care of your needs. They live the whole from each according to his means and to each according to his needs philosophy. Dependency on the government is not freedom and deep down every knows that.
The republican party needs to focus on it's routes of limited federal government and personal freedom. I believe that with the right leadership that message will attract many to the GOP.
The government and the people have become so corrupt that we are doomed as a nation. I beleve we will collapse within our lifetimes in the way that old Russia did.
Glory/Jrlz: When you lose your job and you're about to lose everything you've worked your life for, Food Stamps will help you feed your children - no child in the US should be hungry. If you're going to vote are you going to vote for the guy and party that wants to do away with Food Stamps, the party that wants to deregulate the Banksters that are trying to take your house, the party that says "we can't raise taxes on the rich, they're the job creators when they're the ones that got rid of you or do you vote for the guy that helping you feed your children? Its easy for me to see why not you guys?
Jrlz: as for Communist countries and immigration there are only five left in the world and of those, Cuba and No Korea are so corrupt no one wants to go there. Leaving Vietnam where most NIKE products are made there's huge demand for workers where they're treated decently as with China. Laos, bordering Vietnam and China is so isolated as to almost not exist.
Fisher: you're onto something here. I can concur that things will dramatically change in the US in the next 50-75 years as it has since Ronald Reagan's time. We, as a country, are not doomed but we as a Middle Class will continue to exist but with little upward mobility unless those in power realize that those that can afford to, should be the ones that take up the cause and help.
Jrlz: as for Communist countries and immigration there are only five left in the world and of those, Cuba and No Korea are so corrupt no one wants to go there. Leaving Vietnam where most NIKE products are made there's huge demand for workers where they're treated decently as with China. Laos, bordering Vietnam and China is so isolated as to almost not exist.
Fisher: you're onto something here. I can concur that things will dramatically change in the US in the next 50-75 years as it has since Ronald Reagan's time. We, as a country, are not doomed but we as a Middle Class will continue to exist but with little upward mobility unless those in power realize that those that can afford to, should be the ones that take up the cause and help.
Here is a very well stated explanation for the election results.
http://rabbipruzansky.com/2012...the-american-empire/
http://rabbipruzansky.com/2012...the-american-empire/
"vote for the guy and party that wants to do away with Food Stamps, the party that wants to deregulate the Banksters that are trying to take your house, the party that says "we can't raise taxes on the rich, they're the job creators when they're the ones that got rid of you or do you vote for the guy that helping you feed your children?"
Do away with Food Stamps? Deregulate Banks? You forgot poisen the water and kill off the elderly.
Do away with Food Stamps? Deregulate Banks? You forgot poisen the water and kill off the elderly.
quote:Originally posted by Chuck:
Glory/Jrlz: When you lose your job and you're about to lose everything you've worked your life for, Food Stamps will help you feed your children - no child in the US should be hungry. If you're going to vote are you going to vote for the guy and party that wants to do away with Food Stamps, the party that wants to deregulate the Banksters that are trying to take your house, the party that says "we can't raise taxes on the rich, they're the job creators when they're the ones that got rid of you or do you vote for the guy that helping you feed your children? Its easy for me to see why not you guys?
Jrlz: as for Communist countries and immigration there are only five left in the world and of those, Cuba and No Korea are so corrupt no one wants to go there. Leaving Vietnam where most NIKE products are made there's huge demand for workers where they're treated decently as with China. Laos, bordering Vietnam and China is so isolated as to almost not exist.
Fisher: you're onto something here. I can concur that things will dramatically change in the US in the next 50-75 years as it has since Ronald Reagan's time. We, as a country, are not doomed but we as a Middle Class will continue to exist but with little upward mobility unless those in power realize that those that can afford to, should be the ones that take up the cause and help.
I must have missed something and certainly did not explain my position well. Was someone advocating getting rid of food stamps? I contend that we need to dramatically decrease the size of the Federal Government. That does not mean that people who are in need should not have a saftey net. That saftey net should come from state government, local government and charities, not the Federal government. The most efficient way to help people is at the local level. Sending tax dollars to DC to fund a big federal organization is inefficient. Example: a local charity in my area that helps to feed the elderly who live on thier own has been ordered to stop using their food supply vendor and instead use the governments chosen vendor, even though they are more expensive, because that is the policy. How does that make sense? Prime example of government getting in the way.
As far as there being only five communist countries left in the workd and no one wanting to go there, that makes my point. Why do we want to go down the socialist/communist route with our country? National socialism has never worked and never will.
Jrlz: your Example: a local charity in my area that helps to feed the elderly who live on thier own has been ordered to stop using their food supply vendor and instead use the governments chosen vendor, even though they are more expensive, because that is the policy. This sorta shoots that local being more efficient thing out of the water. By keeping the Feds in the social insurance business (that's what Food Stamps are and Medicare and Social Security) it makes sure that State and Local govts are not overwhelmed in the event an industry (be it coal, auto etc.) are taken out. Right now Unemployment Insurance rules and length of coverage are all over the place but I agree that there are huge improvements to be gained in this area.
As for your socialist/communist comment. People think they are one and the same - not so. Communism involves Central Planning and Control of all area of production and distribution whereas the socialized countries are quite a bit less structured in those areas.
And Glory my defense of Food Stamp recipients was in reaction to your comment about 17 million additional Takers (not your words but I thought that's where you were going - regardless, I don't fault anyone for voting for the guy that's going to make things easier for his family and NOT VOTE for the guy that's gonna make them worse. No child should go hungry regardless how uneducated, lazy or whatever their parents are. Now if I was wrong about you 17 million comment it's MY BAD and sorry goes back to you . . . but I didn't realize Romney was poisioning the water (oh yes that Fracking thing and Natural Gas, he sure is).
As for your socialist/communist comment. People think they are one and the same - not so. Communism involves Central Planning and Control of all area of production and distribution whereas the socialized countries are quite a bit less structured in those areas.
And Glory my defense of Food Stamp recipients was in reaction to your comment about 17 million additional Takers (not your words but I thought that's where you were going - regardless, I don't fault anyone for voting for the guy that's going to make things easier for his family and NOT VOTE for the guy that's gonna make them worse. No child should go hungry regardless how uneducated, lazy or whatever their parents are. Now if I was wrong about you 17 million comment it's MY BAD and sorry goes back to you . . . but I didn't realize Romney was poisioning the water (oh yes that Fracking thing and Natural Gas, he sure is).
I see that 90 thousand Texans have signed a petition to secede from the Union. Not even 1%, however I like their spirit!
Chuck, You assume that all Food Stamp recipients are needy and that they have children and that those children will go hungry without the Food Stamp Program. Certainly true of some but an additional 17 million? Do really think that there is no fraud in the Food Stamp Program? How many of these recipients have big screen TV's with cable, cell phones, high car payments, etc.? That means they would rather have those things than feed their children. That also means that indirectly, I am funding their TV's etc.
My point with the poisen water comment was that if you believe anybody wants to take away food stamps, you probably believe all the other lies as well which of course is proven by your subsequent comment regarding fracking.
My point with the poisen water comment was that if you believe anybody wants to take away food stamps, you probably believe all the other lies as well which of course is proven by your subsequent comment regarding fracking.
quote:Originally posted by Chuck:
Jrlz: your Example: a local charity in my area that helps to feed the elderly who live on thier own has been ordered to stop using their food supply vendor and instead use the governments chosen vendor, even though they are more expensive, because that is the policy. This sorta shoots that local being more efficient thing out of the water. By keeping the Feds in the social insurance business (that's what Food Stamps are and Medicare and Social Security) it makes sure that State and Local govts are not overwhelmed in the event an industry (be it coal, auto etc.) are taken out. Right now Unemployment Insurance rules and length of coverage are all over the place but I agree that there are huge improvements to be gained in this area.
As for your socialist/communist comment. People think they are one and the same - not so. Communism involves Central Planning and Control of all area of production and distribution whereas the socialized countries are quite a bit less structured in those areas.
And Glory my defense of Food Stamp recipients was in reaction to your comment about 17 million additional Takers (not your words but I thought that's where you were going - regardless, I don't fault anyone for voting for the guy that's going to make things easier for his family and NOT VOTE for the guy that's gonna make them worse. No child should go hungry regardless how uneducated, lazy or whatever their parents are. Now if I was wrong about you 17 million comment it's MY BAD and sorry goes back to you . . . but I didn't realize Romney was poisioning the water (oh yes that Fracking thing and Natural Gas, he sure is).
Chuck I am not shure how that shows that the local government si not more efficient. In this case a town if being ordered to us the government "approved" vendor. That vendor is more expensive than the one the town had been using. The added expense may cause the town to have to rethink how many meals a week they can provide.
It appears that one of the presidential canidates did want to cut food stamps. The Toledo blade is reporting that the USDA will be cutting funding for food stamps to Ohio residents. The change will affect approximately 869,000 recipients and could mean a drop of $50 per month in benefits. How is that hope and change working out for the folks in Ohio? This change was not announced until after the election. The change is linked to how the USDA calculates benefits based on utility bills. Ohio did appeal the decision, but the USDA rejected it. So families that are struggling to feed thier children can look forward to $50 less per month in help.
Glory, check my post above where I said there were some easy answers and I stated that "most importantly we need to seek out and find all the source of tax avoidance, welfare fraud, medicare fraud, business tax fraud, immigration fraud (both employers and employee alike)" - I know how important it is to end the fraud, misuse, overbilling, unnecessary tests, unneeded farm subsidies etc.
Jrlz, your exapmle just showed that state/local involvement isn't the answer - I propose we give the money to religious and community orgs and let 'em know that if an audit finds waste, graft, corruption or whatever then BINGO, there goes the tax-exempt status.
As for the Toledo Blade article (gotta go read it) but just how does the amount you get for food stamps equate to, or is related to utility bills? I propose USDA ag subsidies be drastically cut (large corporate farms don't need it just small farmers since they're at huge risk due to market, weather, pests etc.) and food stamps funding go into H&HS (its a health issue not agriculture).
What we need, very desparately, is a leader - someone who can get these elected idiots away from the cameras and microphones and to the study tables to hash out a solution. We're in for an Austerity Crisis (why call it a fiscal cliff when the rest of the world calls it Austerity Crisis?) and it won't be pretty. I hope it happens because unfortunately I have no confidence in our elected or appointed officials to do anything more than kick the can down the road so they can get back in front of the cameras and talk about Benghazi again or is Susan Rice gonna be confirmed.
Jrlz, your exapmle just showed that state/local involvement isn't the answer - I propose we give the money to religious and community orgs and let 'em know that if an audit finds waste, graft, corruption or whatever then BINGO, there goes the tax-exempt status.
As for the Toledo Blade article (gotta go read it) but just how does the amount you get for food stamps equate to, or is related to utility bills? I propose USDA ag subsidies be drastically cut (large corporate farms don't need it just small farmers since they're at huge risk due to market, weather, pests etc.) and food stamps funding go into H&HS (its a health issue not agriculture).
What we need, very desparately, is a leader - someone who can get these elected idiots away from the cameras and microphones and to the study tables to hash out a solution. We're in for an Austerity Crisis (why call it a fiscal cliff when the rest of the world calls it Austerity Crisis?) and it won't be pretty. I hope it happens because unfortunately I have no confidence in our elected or appointed officials to do anything more than kick the can down the road so they can get back in front of the cameras and talk about Benghazi again or is Susan Rice gonna be confirmed.
Art:
Been there, done that, didn't work out so well! But hell, why not try it, at least you'll see if things are better then or not. They gotta keep the Cowboys though!
quote:I see that 90 thousand Texans have signed a petition to secede from the Union. Not even 1%, however I like their spirit!
Been there, done that, didn't work out so well! But hell, why not try it, at least you'll see if things are better then or not. They gotta keep the Cowboys though!
quote:Originally posted by Chuck:
What we need, very desparately, is a leader - someone who can get these elected idiots away from the cameras and microphones and to the study tables to hash out a solution.
From your lips to God's ears Chuck.
quote:Originally posted by Chuck:
Art:quote:I see that 90 thousand Texans have signed a petition to secede from the Union. Not even 1%, however I like their spirit!
Been there, done that, didn't work out so well! But hell, why not try it, at least you'll see if things are better then or not. They gotta keep the Cowboys though!
If Texas actually does seperate I would seriously consider moving there.
Texas has everything it needs to be it's own country. Texas has shipping ports, oil, natural gas, decent size land mass and some natural borders.
Remember when the Conservatives told the Liberals "America, Love It or Leave It"? Wow, times have sure changed.
ACTUAL INCOME TAX PAID
| % of Americans | Tax Liability | ||
| 47% |  |
$0 (47% of Americans pay no income tax at all) | |
| 37% | |
$1-$10,000 | |
| 15% | |
$10,000-$50,000 | |
| 1% | |
$50,000+ | |
The top 5% most productive Americans pay 59% of all income tax collected by the Fed Government. Despite the media labeling this category of taxpayers as "wealthy" - over half of those most productive Americans are actually small business owners taxed at the personal income tax rates.
quote:Originally posted by Art Post:
<html><div class="rendom_title">ACTUAL INCOME TAX PAID</div>
<div class="text">
<div class="pool_result_container">
<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width="2%"> </td>
<td colspan="2"><strong>% of Americans </strong></td>
<td width="47%"><strong>Tax Liability</strong></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="4" height="10"> </td>
</tr>
<tr class="sel_color">
<td> </td>
<td width="5%">47%</td>
<td width="46%"><img src="http://www.section179.org/images/pollbar_red.jpg" /></td>
<td>$0 (47% of Americans pay no income tax at all)</td>
</tr>
<tr class="sel_color_none">
<td> </td>
<td>37%</td>
<td><img src="http://www.section179.org/images/pollbar_red.jpg" /></td>
<td>$1-$10,000</td>
</tr>
<tr class="sel_color">
<td> </td>
<td>15%</td>
<td><img src="http://www.section179.org/images/pollbar_red.jpg" /></td>
<td>$10,000-$50,000</td>
</tr>
<tr class="sel_color_none">
<td> </td>
<td>1%</td>
<td><img src="http://www.section179.org/images/pollbar_red.jpg" /></td>
<td>$50,000+</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
The top 5% most productive Americans pay 59% of all income tax collected by the Fed Government. Despite the media labeling this category of taxpayers as "wealthy" - over half of those most productive Americans are actually small business owners taxed at the personal income tax rates.</p>
</div></html>
Startling is it not. I researched it once and if you took 100% of the income from everyone earning more than $112,000/year we could only fund the federal givernment for something like 10 months. We have a spending problem, not a tax revenue problem. I say this is not that much different from someone with an additcition. You have to hit rock bottom before you can recover. The government & the country has to hit rock bottom, realize they have a problem and then recover. Look at Europe with thier Austerity problems. That is the US in the near future.
Who makes up that 47% anyway? Check this link out for a surprise answer . . .
http://www.businessinsider.com...no-income-tax-2012-9
http://www.businessinsider.com...no-income-tax-2012-9
Of course it's not JUST the very wealthy that pay no taxes, take a look at this link . . .
http://payupnow.org/
Easy to solve these issues if we could just get the elected officials that work for us to do their jobs.
http://payupnow.org/
Easy to solve these issues if we could just get the elected officials that work for us to do their jobs.