RBS Continues to Dump Machines & Make Dealers Look Bad!

Art, while I know it's frustrating to have to run up against these types the one thing that is obvious in this is that you are the professional and you know as well as I do that in the long run you'll be there to pick up the pieces and the customer will be more loyal and less willing in the future to deal with the types exhibited here.

I understand and agree, however reps like these are giving us (Dealers) a bad name. Quoting like this, is basically stating that we ripped them off! Thats all this quote is about, is to discredit a dealer and show the customer they could have bought for below max Dealer Cost.

I will be at the customers location, and this is probably one of those customers that we should not have sold a amchine too and I should have walked away. I don't walk away well, however I am learning!

I to am a victom of RBS. Sold to customer previously(rural area) and had another deal secured. RBS informed them they could beat my price. Customer now wondering if they got the best price before. Look out if using any registering of customers with RBS.

If you have a signed contract and RBS quotes a lower price, you have grounds for a law suit.
It's considered unfair business practices and tortuos interference. Your dealerships laywer should send a letter to Ricoh's legal council seeking compensation.
The last thing they want is a lawsuit.

Art,

I agree with the Professor. I have consulted with my father, who works in the class action lawsuit business, and he indicated we (independent dealers) may have grounds for a class against Ricoh Direct branches. The area is very gray but I don't think they want to hear that a large group of independents dealers are seeking compensation for questionable business practices.

RBS is in our backyard now and they are very predatory with their pricing (and they deliver very little in terms of value)...if I remember from business school, predatory pricing is illegal. If you have quotes that affect our livelihood as much as the one you received, I would consider that evidence.

I just looked it up:

Predatory pricing (also known as destroyer pricing) is the practice of a firm selling a product at very low price with the intent of driving competitors out of the market, or create a barrier to entry into the market for potential new competitors. If the other firms cannot sustain equal or lower prices without losing money, they go out of business. The predatory pricer then has fewer competitors or even a monopoly, allowing it to raise prices above what the market would otherwise bear.

In many countries, including the United States, predatory pricing is considered anti-competitive and is illegal under antitrust laws. However, it is usually difficult to prove that a drop in prices is due to predatory pricing rather than normal competition, and predatory pricing claims are difficult to prove due to high legal hurdles designed to protect legitimate price competition.

I may have a great piece of evidence against RBS.

Here's some more on this:

The attempt to reduce or to eliminate predatory pricing is also likely to reduce or eliminate com petitive pricing beneficial to consumers.
--Harold Demsetz
Predatory pricing is one of the oldest big business conspiracy theories. It was popularized in the late 19th century by journalists such as Ida Tarbell, who in History of the Standard Oil Company excoriated John D. Rockefeller because Standard Oil's low prices had driven her brother's employer, the Pure Oil Company, from the petroleum-refining business.(1) "Cutting to Kill" was the title of the chapter in which Tarbell condemned Standard Oil's allegedly predatory price cutting.

The predatory pricing argument is very simple. The predatory firm first lowers its price until it is below the average cost of its competitors. The competitors must then lower their prices below average cost, thereby losing money on each unit sold. If they fail to cut their prices, they will lose virtually all of their market share; if they do cut their prices, they will eventually go bankrupt. After the competition has been forced out of the market, the predatory firm raises its price, compensating itself for the money it lost while it was engaged in predatory pricing, and earns monopoly profits forever after.

The theory of predatory pricing has always seemed to have a grain of truth to it--at least to noneconomists--but research over the past 35 years has shown that predatory pricing as a strategy for monopolizing an industry is irra- tional, that there has never been a single clear-cut example of a monopoly created by so-called predatory pricing, and that claims of predatory pricing are typically made by com- petitors who are either unwilling or unable to cut their own prices. Thus, legal restrictions on price cutting, in the name of combatting "predation," are inevitably protectionist and anti-consumer, as Harold Demsetz noted.(2)

Predatory pricing is the Rodney Dangerfield of economic theory--it gets virtually no respect from economists. But it is still a popular legal and political theory for several reasons. First, huge sums of money are involved in predato- ry pricing litigation, which guarantees that the antitrust bar will always be fond of the theory of predatory pricing. During the 1970s AT&T estimated that it spent over $100 million a year defending itself against claims of predatory pricing. It has been estimated that the average cost to a major corporation of litigating a predation case is $30 million.(3)

Second, because it seems plausible at first, the idea of predatory pricing lends itself to political demagoguery, especially when combined with xenophobia. The specter of a foreign conspiracy to take over American industries one by one is extremely popular in folk myth. Protectionist mem- bers of Congress frequently invoke that myth in attempts to protect businesses in their districts from foreign competition.

Third, ideological anti-business pressure groups, such as Citizen Action, a self-styled consumer group, also employ the predatory pricing tale in their efforts to discredit capitalism and promote greater governmental control of industry. Citizen Action perennially attacks the oil industry for either raising or cutting prices. When oil and gas prices go up, Citizen Action holds a press conference to denounce alleged price gouging. When prices go down, it can be relied on to issue a "study" claiming that the price reductions are part of a grand conspiracy to rid the market of all competitors. And when prices remain constant, price-fixing conspiracies are frequently alleged.

Fourth, predatory pricing is a convenient weapon for businesses that do not want to match their competitors' price cutting. Filing an antitrust lawsuit is a common alternative to competing by cutting prices or improving product quality, or both.

Finally, some economists still embrace the theory of predatory pricing. But their support for the notion is based entirely on highly stylized "models," not on actual experience.

I wonder if WE can collect enough quotes across the country to verfiy this, I have always thought and still think that they know we can not sell as low as them and if we do, we will either changes lines or "hit the highway", it really is an interesting strategy when you give it some thought. Put as many people on the street as you can, quote pricing at dealer cost or lower, loss millions and see what happens after a few quarters, it is interesting.

I work for RBS as wide format specialist, I hit my numbers selling wide format, and that quote is impossible. It's below cost, not including networking, delivery, toner, etc. No need to fire this guy, he can't make a living selling like this anyway.

Some offices (and dealers) don't have anyone that understands wide format, and will try to sell them at a cut price to keep a good customer and keep someone that knows wide format out of the account. I've picked up nice business selling B2C and B&W MFP's to customers that liked doing wide format business with me.

I also have a file with quotes from Ricoh, Savin, and Gestetner (now Lanier) dealers with ridiculous cut prices on wide format where I have had to gnash my teeth and walk away. On the follow-up, nearly all end-users were dissatisfied with their purchase, I even made money training a couple of them after the genius dealer couldn't figure out how to make it work. One guy even told his buddy to spend the extra money and buy from me, because the dealer was worthless.

It's frustrating for all of us that sell wide format when this happens, but looking at it from the RBS side, it is a two-way street.

That's some great insight, I think the quote was meant more as a slap in the face for the dealer, and this is why you shoould be buying from us. I have the quote if you would like to see it.

And you're right about the support, thanx for the heads up from an RBS point of view. We're all out there to feed our families.

One other note, unless you are fully accredited you should not be allowed to sell wide format, they are an entirely different beast from office copiers, the support, the on-site mentoring and then the troubleshooting.

wideformat, you are so right. it is a completely different animal and most dealerships don't really do it right. I was with a dealership that was sold on marketing the wide format product and because of the way they set up the comp program the rep and the manager made the same spiff whether it was sold at retail or salesmans outcost. given that there was no incentive to do anything than just place the box.