Oce cutting my throat in every deal!!!

This is a tough battle in the field. Ever since Canon purchased Oce....Oce/Canon has provided extreme price flexibility. Oce/Canon will not lose the margins they have already built into the equipment nor will they lose the service revenue. So at that point it is up to the rep to price the deal where they think they would have the best shot to win within their guidelines. Remember that there may be no margin for the rep but the rep may not mind because they are driven by a revenue plan. So in your case the rep added 19K and 2,300 to their monthly numbers and made very little to no commission. The rep is going after their revenue bonuses and maximizing their comp plan.

What type of commission/revenue/bonus do you have in your program? How much margin did you have in both deals? You may have to sell as close as possible to your rep price to be competitive but if you are on a commission then you may not want to do that. It is challenging to overcome this because of the flexibility the Oce/Canon rep can provide a customer.

I second what Monte states!

Things that I've used in the past I've posted here in a document http://p4photel.com/eve/forums...0104541/m/7783923667.

Some other tips is to create value with your service, find the holes in the OCE plan, get a copy of the sales order, the lease and pick apart the bad things.

It's not easy to beat a rep that is on a revenue plan. Give your best price, move on and try and find accounts where you can sell your company, yourself, a solution and you'll find a few who won't shop. It's fustrating when this happens but it happens to all of us. You'll need to get more prospects in your pipeline.

Art

Nicely stated Art!

Emie:

Just an additional mote on this, I'm going head to head with Ricoh direct on many occassions and sometimes they don't even know I'm in the deal and visa versa. There will be no differences with the hardware, the difference is YOU, the company YOU work for, and the difference in the financial structure of the deal, the service structure of the deal.

If you have abuilt a good relationship with the potential customer, it's not a bad thing to lose the deal. When I've lost I've gone back to customer and asked why?

If it was a price issue I'll ask for the a copy of the lease, sales order and maintenance agreement. Most times I won't get these, but if I ask enough I will (over time). I'll then review all of the t's & c's of all the documents and then make a list of "bad" things, such as an elevator increase on the lease, or service and supplies, an additional up charge for gas, an additional increase for connected more than 2 pc's for print & scan. Additional charge for fixing a scan2error with the MFP. It's all there, you just need to see it and when you see it, you'll have your ahh haaa moment,mmmmmmmmm, that's how they did it. The next time will be different. As they say it's not just about speeds and feeds anymore. Dig deep into the financial package and you may even see that they are upcharing on the lease rates also.

Art

quote:

Originally posted by montecore:
Nicely stated Art!

Thanx for that, your points are right on also.

Thanks for the feedback. I do have a relationship with both customers. These were cash deals no lease. @montecore my commission plan is paid on profit dollars. I came in at a 18% margin. I'll keep on knocking on doors and making calls. They won't win them all!

Emie:

Even on the cash deals get a copy of the competitors maintenance agreement and read the fine print.

Emie....thanks for sharing. We all learn here...even the people that have been in the industry for years. What you will find out is every deal is different and there are all sorts of angles that you can take like Art was describing. What separates you from others is your knowledge of the industry....that builds respect with the customer and they know what you are talking about...not just trying to sell a box like most reps. YOU distinguish and sell yourself. Make sure you show a passion to help them and excited to tell them about YOUR solution. People that deal with copier people all the time will separate you out immediately, good or bad. Remember you cannot control your competition and a dealer can do whatever they want....they can even lose money on a deal they are trying to win. What you pointed out is this was an 18% margin and you are paid on profit dollars....that is where it is hard to compete against a revenue plan....because that rep most likely had very little to NO profit which they did not care about because they won the deal and got the revenue. As Art said try to learn from each deal....after a winner is chosen you may never get any of those documents. However if it is a public bid or govt account then they have to provide you with all the bid results that shows vendor, cost, maintenance. That is good info to get so you know how your competition attacks a bid and you can be more competitive next time. I just knocked out a govt account with four 12+ year old Ricohs because I used info learned from an account I lost to the same vendor. I had minus profit but I just wanted the revenue. That is how you take a negative and turn it in to a positive.

Montecore:

awesome!!

Emie,

We compete against Oce & CBS all the time. We tell customers early on that we will not be the "cheapest" vendor that they look at. In fact if they are looking for the cheapest price they shouldn't be looking at us, because we provide the best value, not the cheapest price. When you break down the cost over a 48 or 60 month period how much more did you cost them for your better support? Even if they are buying the equipment they will keep it for 4 or 5 years, so this is a valid comparison.

Our service, support after the sale is great! We have a 46 year track record in our area, with local resources that an Oce or CBS does NOT. We have a local warehouse with millions of dollars in parts, supplies, and equipment. That REALLY helped our customers not feel any pain during the Tsunami catastrophe in Japan. Our customer had parts, supplies, and equipment in a timely manner. Our SEs (Systems Engineers) are based local, not out of state. And finally if they deal with us they get a seasoned Sales Rep that has the authority to resolve our customers issues, whether they are service or billing, or lease problems. THAT MEANS LESS HEADACHES FOR YOUR CUSTOMER!!! Now that is added value!

Do you know anyone that goes out to buy the CHEAPEST SUIT, or the CHEAPEST TV, or the CHEAPEST CAR they can find? So why are we letting these bottom feeders define the deal by being the CHEAPEST! You redefine the deal based on value! And if you do loose the deal to the guy selling the CHEAPEST price, be polite, be gracious, and check in with that account in 3 or 6 months and again in a year or two and see how Oce or CBS did after the sale? Does he get good service and support. Does he see the Oce \ CBS sales person anymore? Is the Oce \ CBS sales person even with Oce \ CBS anymore? Keep track of their unhappy customers. When you win them back, maybe for Service first, they won't leave you again for the guy with the CHEAPEST price. Collect a few of them as references that you can give to those considering Oce or CBS. The FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt)will give some of the customers pause who are on the bubble. And you will begin to win more than you lose.

That's my $0.02
Vince McHugh

I like the FUD!

Vince:

BTW did you get the lead I gave you or Boston?

Art

Yes, Thanks!

I forwarded it to our General Sales Manager.

Vince

This was taken from Gap Intelligence:

According to channel reports, Canon U.S.A recently informed dealers that it plans to increase pricing in April 2012. The vendor reportedly plans to increase pricing for hardware and some software items by 5 percent, while parts and supplies will be increased by 2 percent.

A price hike from Canon would follow increases from Konica Minolta (US January, Canada in April), Ricoh, HP, and Lexmark through the first six weeks of 2012. Ricoh similarly increased pricing across its portfolio, while Konica Minolta only increased hardware pricing, and Lexmark and HP specifically increased consumable costs.

Here is some ammo for you guys, tell your customer this:

Did you buy your last or any car directly from Ford/GM/Chrysler/Honda/Toyota etc? They didn't buy from the manufacturer becuase the manufacturer doesn't provide local support, a person you can go back to when problems arise, etc.

This is the same with copiers/MFP's. The maufacturers don't have the seasoned technicians or sales reps to handle issues. Most times the manufacturer turns over people so quickly that you might only have the same person for 3-6 months.

Copiers/MFP are so much like cars in the way they are leased and repaired, this is just another example of how they are so close to being the same beasts.