How to Beat HP's New PageWide A3 MFP's

I'll kick it off:

Best quality print will be on IJ (inkjet) paper, thus there will be a substantial increase in paper cost.  Almost ten dollars per 500 sheets = 2 cents per sheet of paper!

ok, I got more. Is anyone else going to chime?  What I'm doing is researching the heck out of the HP PageWide XL printers. It makes sense because the same print technology will be used in the new A3 color MFP's.  Thus, I'm taking some of the data that I find interesting and posting it up for us.

1) Light radiation hazard

Light radiation is emitted from the beacon, ink level indicators, paper drawer indicators, and formatter status indicators. The emitted light is in compliance with the requirements of the exempt group of IEC 62471:2006, Photobiological safety of lamps and lamp systems. Do not modify these modules.

• Here's some additional information I found on this:  Photobiological Safety of Lamps and Lamp Systems (IEC/EN 62471) for LEDs. My thoughts....., there is no good radiation.

• Evaluating the photobiological safety of lamps and lamp systems, including LEDs, to IEC/EN 62471 is a legal requirement for lighting products sold in Europe. Photobiological testing relates to the optical radiation effects of LED and traditional lighting on human eyes. As LEDs become widely used, assessment of the unique “blue light” hazard is critical. The Photobiological Safety of Lamps and Lamp Systems (IEC/EN 62471) for LED Lighting white paper provides an overview of exposure limits, measurement techniques, classification of hazards, and manufacturer obligations including labeling requirements.

  Only for HP PageWide XL devices:

• Heavy paper hazard

   Special care must be taken to avoid personal injury when handling heavy rolls of paper.

  1.   Handling heavy rolls may require more than one person. Care must be taken to avoid back strain and/or injury.  
  2. Consider using a forklift, pallet truck, or other handling equipment.
  3. When handling heavy rolls, wear personal protective equipment including boots and gloves. 
  4. Do not exceed the maximum weight of a paper roll: see Functional specifications on page 128.

  5. Paper rolls could weigh up to 18 kg (50 lbs). Follow your local Environmental Health and Safety recommendations for handling heavy paper rolls.

     Ink handling (This is interesting!!)

     HP recommends that you wear gloves when handling the ink maintenance cartridge or waste container.

There's going to be more, would love to hear from others. If anyone sells PageWide, would love to hear from you.

Here's another that I picked off from the HP PageWide 5000XL brochure:

Printhead warranty 10 liters or 12 months from installation

This brings up another question, is the printhead included in any maintenance agreements?

All I hear is crickets!

I agree:
Print quality will be poor compared to laser on normal paper
CPP will higher, maintenance is expensive on PW devices
And also the ink is not good for you (the enviroment) This is true for many other HP ink jet printers
I am convinced that we will see similar devices from other manufactures, I know Ricoh has done a lot of research in ink technology lately 

Just an update on the above threads, that data pertains to the HP XL PageWide devices which is the wide format series

If any of you have access to the Riso ComColor my guess is the output will be similar.  Great for churches or schools but not up to par for what businesses want from their color devices.

Art Post posted:

ok, I got more. Is anyone else going to chime?  What I'm doing is researching the heck out of the HP PageWide XL printers. It makes sense because the same print technology will be used in the new A3 color MFP's.  Thus, I'm taking some of the data that I find interesting and posting it up for us.

1) Light radiation hazard

Light radiation is emitted from the beacon, ink level indicators, paper drawer indicators, and formatter status indicators. The emitted light is in compliance with the requirements of the exempt group of IEC 62471:2006, Photobiological safety of lamps and lamp systems. Do not modify these modules.

• Here's some additional information I found on this:  Photobiological Safety of Lamps and Lamp Systems (IEC/EN 62471) for LEDs. My thoughts....., there is no good radiation.

• Evaluating the photobiological safety of lamps and lamp systems, including LEDs, to IEC/EN 62471 is a legal requirement for lighting products sold in Europe. Photobiological testing relates to the optical radiation effects of LED and traditional lighting on human eyes. As LEDs become widely used, assessment of the unique “blue light” hazard is critical. The Photobiological Safety of Lamps and Lamp Systems (IEC/EN 62471) for LED Lighting white paper provides an overview of exposure limits, measurement techniques, classification of hazards, and manufacturer obligations including labeling requirements.

  Only for HP PageWide XL devices:

• Heavy paper hazard

   Special care must be taken to avoid personal injury when handling heavy rolls of paper.

  1.   Handling heavy rolls may require more than one person. Care must be taken to avoid back strain and/or injury.  
  2. Consider using a forklift, pallet truck, or other handling equipment.
  3. When handling heavy rolls, wear personal protective equipment including boots and gloves. 
  4. Do not exceed the maximum weight of a paper roll: see Functional specifications on page 128.

  5. Paper rolls could weigh up to 18 kg (50 lbs). Follow your local Environmental Health and Safety recommendations for handling heavy paper rolls.

     Ink handling (This is interesting!!)

     HP recommends that you wear gloves when handling the ink maintenance cartridge or waste container.

Let's talk more about the paper.  The HP will take a 650 foot roll.  What that means is the roll of paper will be 50lbs or more.  

* Risk of someone hurting their back when loaded the paper. This is introduces additional risk to the business owner if someone hurts their back when changing rolls of paper. The last thing a business owner needs is a workman's comp claim.

* Are the prints going to be used on a job site? If so, rain and or moisture can make the ink smear and bleed. What good are the prints then?

Another question to ask:

Weight of the PageWide wide format devices is 984lbs.  Will the clients floor take that type of weight?

Are you only discussing A3 or also plotters?

It's both. PageWide print heads are used in both the A3 copiers and the XL wide format devices.

I saw the 8000 in action at a commercial "blueprint" shop and it was very impressive.  The quality on 20 lb bond was great, and very fast. The guys running the machine said operational costs were significantly less than the KIPs they replaced it with. And very reliable...I believe they ran 1.5 million sq ft without a problem.  They replaced the cutter on their own, pretty easily.  I'm exclusively a Ricoh WF dealer, but these things scare me due to the loss of service/parts revenue  I would incur if I needed to place one.  Yes, the size/weight is a detriment, and predicting ink cost is always tricky.  But it appears this technology may have some legs to stand on.

I have a repro account that has two HP 8000XL's, and they love them. no issues, ink consumption is good along with head replacement.

I have a client who buys his MFP's from us but not his Large Format (gets that from a reporgraphics shop/reseller) and he loves his 8,000. Every time I go in there it is humming right along spitting out prints. 

Whats the price point on the 8,000's. I am going to try to flip him back to toner if the price is right. I only have access to the Ricoh Wide Format so I am not sure how the price will stack up due to the 8,000 doing 30 d's a minute. 

You mean xl8000 right?

Yes the XL8000

I recently heard of and mfp xl8000 for 30k

It should be obvious to all that the toner based print industry is very mature.  Another A3 "whiz-bang feature rich" toner based copier is not going to set the world on fire.

LED printers with page wide print heads using toner have some good talking points but to me did not set the print world on fire.   Some manufacturers even stepped back from LED to laser.

I predict in the next 24 months,  inkjet based "Page-Wide" A3 MFP printers will start to disrupt the industry based upon the big industry players making more frequent inkjet product announcements in the wide format and commercial space.

Espon started it (I have never seen or competed against one), HP should have a product sometime soon, I do not know the economics of a A3 inkjet MFP but I think the print quality is there now.

I think toner based customers might need some convincing and laser is never going away.

I do not know if the industry wants a breakthrough to lower prices with A3 Inkjet MFPs meaning once again we got sell more boxes to make the same amount of money.