Did you know that the total cost per page for the 2232-2238 (which includes Parts+Labor+Supplies (including Toner)) is 0.006739 for B&W & 0.042962 for Full Color?
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That is awesome. I assume this cpc is based upon 100% yields from the supplies. Are you aware of any Ricoh dealers who are providing an All-Inclusive (with supplies) cpc programs for their customers for the CL7000, 1224/1232 or the new 2232/2238? My dealership is extrememly reluctant to do so and we are losing business everyday. I am currently in a deal against Konica, and they have quoted a cpc of .10 for full color.
Thank You,
5 Stroke Philbeck
Thank You,
5 Stroke Philbeck
i know that the local mita dealer is quoting .085 for full color.....i can get to .10 but that's about it unless it's a larger deal.
Phil:
There are many threads on the hotel that are pertinant to your question.
go to your find button, then click it and then enter:
Take a look at these:
Is there anyone out there selling CPC on the 3800 and the 3800 CMF units? We have ran over several scenarios of how to bill it so the customer can use the CMF as a primary B/W copier as well as color and none seem to work out all that well for either the customer or service....
Anyone doing this? If so, how are you billing it and pricing it to your customers? (I don't necessarily need figures just methodology).
Thanks
First Previous 7-21 of 21 Next Last Delete Replies
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Recommend Delete Message 7 of 21 in Discussion
From: ricohaficio Sent: 6/13/2002 12:50 PM
Please help, is the config page (this is the one that is defaulted to developments?).
The fuser is rated for 100,000K is this developments or pages? I understand 5% per color will lower page counts. However, a fuser that yields only 25K full color pages along w/Fuser oil lasting 5,000 full color pages, developers lating 25,000 full color pages, and drums only lasting 12,500 pages drives the cpc to almost 40 cents per page. Am I correct in my assumptions?
Again, you have stated that the defualt meter read is developments, yourre sure?
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 8 of 21 in Discussion
From: Color1 Sent: 6/14/2002 8:38 AM
That is 100K pages for the yield on the Fusing Unit.
-----Original Message-----
From: ricohaficio [mailto:Salmonrive@msn.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 12:50 PM
To: Print 4 Pay Hotel
Subject: Re: CPC on 3800C and 3800CMF
New Message on Print 4 Pay Hotel
CPC on 3800C and 3800CMF
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 9 of 21 in Discussion
From: Jim Stocker Sent: 6/14/2002 8:55 AM
The stated yield on the oil is 20K, fuser 100K. It doesn't matter whether full color or not, as the fusing takes place after all the DVU's have been used.
I've calculated the total supply/kit RETAIL CPC for a full color page based on manufacturers specs as $0.07742, B&W comes out at $0.01053. The service/supply pricing component for this engine is complicated by the fact that Ricoh designed this engine to produce on average 5 pages per job, 300,000 developments (or 40,198 pages) per year (based on 80% full color and 20% B&W). Trouble is most people I've talked to have said that the average in the US is 3 pages per job. Ricoh produced a Service Cost Estimate worksheet based on both. The yields on the 3 pages per job fell to between 75 -80% of stated yields. Overall RETAIL cost/copy increases to $0.08063/copy full color, and $0.01226/copy B&W, for supply/kits only. We use this to sell customers on do-it-yourself maintenance and sell an EM contract for $495 (printer) and $793 (copier) to cover the rest. Of course, we state that actual cost/copy will probably be higher due to actual coverage being closer to 30% rather than 20% that the specs are on.
We also offer a CPC contract, as well, for those customers wanting total piece of mind. The overall service cost estimate to dealer (including EM labor, EM parts, Kit labor, Kits and Toner) for 5 pages per job - full color is $0.05355/copy, B&W - $0.01395/copy , for 3 pages per job - full color is $0.05620/copy, B&W - $0.01660/copy. We price our full color CPC contract as follows: Base rate of 500 - 1000 full color copies per month billed monthly in advance @ $0.20 - $0.15/copy (ie $100 or $150/mth depending on base rate volume and competitiveness). Any full color overage is billed monthly in arrears @ $0.15 - $0.20/copy (again, depending on competition) and all B&W copies are billed monthly in arrears @ $0.02/copy. We provide all toner up front to customer, and include all labor, travel, parts, kits, and installation of kits. Customer is educated in the use of SmartNetMonitor to gauge reorder time for extra toner. This contract covers copies up to 35% coverage. There is a way for a tech to go into SP mode to see coverage per toner color for lastr job and for the lifetime average. Our techs are instructed to calculate total ave coverage on any regular call. If the coverage exceeds 35%, the customer is pushed up into the next coverage bracket for next billing cycle (36-50% extra $0.05/copy, 51-75% extra $0.15/copy, 76%+ extra $0.20/copy). They will alos drop down again if the average coverage drops.
This seems to be working very well on the units we have out. We have a mix of about 50-50 to each version of contract coverage.
I could post the Savin Service Management Guide and Bulletin, if you'd like. As you can see, it's a little complicated until you get your mind around the "Ricoh language".
Cheers.
Jim Stocker
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Recommend Delete Message 11 of 21 in Discussion
From: ricohaficio Sent: 6/14/2002 9:09 AM
Great info Jim:
It would be helpful if you can post that information. There are many (service departments) that are behind the curve on this. One of them is ours. I will pass along the info.
Thanx,
Art
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 12 of 21 in Discussion
From: Jim Stocker Sent: 6/14/2002 10:08 AM
I don't have any answers for your fusing issue. Sorry.
On the developments/pages issue, we have found that it's much easier all around to change the way they count, out of the box, to pages NOT developments. This maks it easier to track actual yields based on spec'd info. I'll post the info as soon as I get permissions to do so on the site - Art?
Jim Stocker
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Recommend Delete Message 13 of 21 in Discussion
From: ricohaficio Sent: 6/14/2002 7:54 PM
permission granted!
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Recommend Delete Message 14 of 21 in Discussion
From: Jim Stocker Sent: 6/19/2002 9:08 AM
Art,
I've tried to post the files I have on the DSc38, but they are apparantly too large. So, then I tried to e-mail them to you, but it got returned. What would you like for me to do with them? One is the Service Management Guide and the other a Service Management Bulletin.
Let me know. Cheers.
Jim Stocker
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 15 of 21 in Discussion
From: ricohaficio Sent: 6/19/2002 4:29 PM
I will send you a code for Doc Mall, and you can upload them there.
Art
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 16 of 21 in Discussion
From: Ted Sent: 7/24/2002 10:17 AM
Jim, I'm going to reference your increases in cpc if the customer exceeds 35% coverage. Do the increases just apply to the color pages, or do you also increase the B&W if these go over? If so, let me know what y'all do.
Thanks,
Ted
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 17 of 21 in Discussion
From: Jim Stocker Sent: 7/24/2002 1:11 PM
Ted, we just increase the color cpc, on the basis that it's mostly the color mix that increases in the coverage %age, and the expense is dramatically different to that of Black toner.
Cheers,
Jim.
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 18 of 21 in Discussion
From: Ted Sent: 7/24/2002 4:56 PM
Thanks Jim. Now this is for anyone; did we ever get a definative answer regarding the warranty on the 3800C? i.e. what it covers, how long it is, and/or is there one?
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 19 of 21 in Discussion
From: Color1 Sent: 7/25/2002 3:57 PM
The warranty from Ricoh thru RMAP is one year. This covers labor, the customer is responsible for toner and maintenance kits should they be required during that period. This is my understanding, does anyone know differently?
There are many threads on the hotel that are pertinant to your question.
go to your find button, then click it and then enter:
Take a look at these:
Is there anyone out there selling CPC on the 3800 and the 3800 CMF units? We have ran over several scenarios of how to bill it so the customer can use the CMF as a primary B/W copier as well as color and none seem to work out all that well for either the customer or service....
Anyone doing this? If so, how are you billing it and pricing it to your customers? (I don't necessarily need figures just methodology).
Thanks
First Previous 7-21 of 21 Next Last Delete Replies
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 7 of 21 in Discussion
From: ricohaficio Sent: 6/13/2002 12:50 PM
Please help, is the config page (this is the one that is defaulted to developments?).
The fuser is rated for 100,000K is this developments or pages? I understand 5% per color will lower page counts. However, a fuser that yields only 25K full color pages along w/Fuser oil lasting 5,000 full color pages, developers lating 25,000 full color pages, and drums only lasting 12,500 pages drives the cpc to almost 40 cents per page. Am I correct in my assumptions?
Again, you have stated that the defualt meter read is developments, yourre sure?
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 8 of 21 in Discussion
From: Color1 Sent: 6/14/2002 8:38 AM
That is 100K pages for the yield on the Fusing Unit.
-----Original Message-----
From: ricohaficio [mailto:Salmonrive@msn.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 12:50 PM
To: Print 4 Pay Hotel
Subject: Re: CPC on 3800C and 3800CMF
New Message on Print 4 Pay Hotel
CPC on 3800C and 3800CMF
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 9 of 21 in Discussion
From: Jim Stocker Sent: 6/14/2002 8:55 AM
The stated yield on the oil is 20K, fuser 100K. It doesn't matter whether full color or not, as the fusing takes place after all the DVU's have been used.
I've calculated the total supply/kit RETAIL CPC for a full color page based on manufacturers specs as $0.07742, B&W comes out at $0.01053. The service/supply pricing component for this engine is complicated by the fact that Ricoh designed this engine to produce on average 5 pages per job, 300,000 developments (or 40,198 pages) per year (based on 80% full color and 20% B&W). Trouble is most people I've talked to have said that the average in the US is 3 pages per job. Ricoh produced a Service Cost Estimate worksheet based on both. The yields on the 3 pages per job fell to between 75 -80% of stated yields. Overall RETAIL cost/copy increases to $0.08063/copy full color, and $0.01226/copy B&W, for supply/kits only. We use this to sell customers on do-it-yourself maintenance and sell an EM contract for $495 (printer) and $793 (copier) to cover the rest. Of course, we state that actual cost/copy will probably be higher due to actual coverage being closer to 30% rather than 20% that the specs are on.
We also offer a CPC contract, as well, for those customers wanting total piece of mind. The overall service cost estimate to dealer (including EM labor, EM parts, Kit labor, Kits and Toner) for 5 pages per job - full color is $0.05355/copy, B&W - $0.01395/copy , for 3 pages per job - full color is $0.05620/copy, B&W - $0.01660/copy. We price our full color CPC contract as follows: Base rate of 500 - 1000 full color copies per month billed monthly in advance @ $0.20 - $0.15/copy (ie $100 or $150/mth depending on base rate volume and competitiveness). Any full color overage is billed monthly in arrears @ $0.15 - $0.20/copy (again, depending on competition) and all B&W copies are billed monthly in arrears @ $0.02/copy. We provide all toner up front to customer, and include all labor, travel, parts, kits, and installation of kits. Customer is educated in the use of SmartNetMonitor to gauge reorder time for extra toner. This contract covers copies up to 35% coverage. There is a way for a tech to go into SP mode to see coverage per toner color for lastr job and for the lifetime average. Our techs are instructed to calculate total ave coverage on any regular call. If the coverage exceeds 35%, the customer is pushed up into the next coverage bracket for next billing cycle (36-50% extra $0.05/copy, 51-75% extra $0.15/copy, 76%+ extra $0.20/copy). They will alos drop down again if the average coverage drops.
This seems to be working very well on the units we have out. We have a mix of about 50-50 to each version of contract coverage.
I could post the Savin Service Management Guide and Bulletin, if you'd like. As you can see, it's a little complicated until you get your mind around the "Ricoh language".
Cheers.
Jim Stocker
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 11 of 21 in Discussion
From: ricohaficio Sent: 6/14/2002 9:09 AM
Great info Jim:
It would be helpful if you can post that information. There are many (service departments) that are behind the curve on this. One of them is ours. I will pass along the info.
Thanx,
Art
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 12 of 21 in Discussion
From: Jim Stocker Sent: 6/14/2002 10:08 AM
I don't have any answers for your fusing issue. Sorry.
On the developments/pages issue, we have found that it's much easier all around to change the way they count, out of the box, to pages NOT developments. This maks it easier to track actual yields based on spec'd info. I'll post the info as soon as I get permissions to do so on the site - Art?
Jim Stocker
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 13 of 21 in Discussion
From: ricohaficio Sent: 6/14/2002 7:54 PM
permission granted!
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 14 of 21 in Discussion
From: Jim Stocker Sent: 6/19/2002 9:08 AM
Art,
I've tried to post the files I have on the DSc38, but they are apparantly too large. So, then I tried to e-mail them to you, but it got returned. What would you like for me to do with them? One is the Service Management Guide and the other a Service Management Bulletin.
Let me know. Cheers.
Jim Stocker
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 15 of 21 in Discussion
From: ricohaficio Sent: 6/19/2002 4:29 PM
I will send you a code for Doc Mall, and you can upload them there.
Art
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 16 of 21 in Discussion
From: Ted Sent: 7/24/2002 10:17 AM
Jim, I'm going to reference your increases in cpc if the customer exceeds 35% coverage. Do the increases just apply to the color pages, or do you also increase the B&W if these go over? If so, let me know what y'all do.
Thanks,
Ted
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 17 of 21 in Discussion
From: Jim Stocker Sent: 7/24/2002 1:11 PM
Ted, we just increase the color cpc, on the basis that it's mostly the color mix that increases in the coverage %age, and the expense is dramatically different to that of Black toner.
Cheers,
Jim.
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 18 of 21 in Discussion
From: Ted Sent: 7/24/2002 4:56 PM
Thanks Jim. Now this is for anyone; did we ever get a definative answer regarding the warranty on the 3800C? i.e. what it covers, how long it is, and/or is there one?
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 19 of 21 in Discussion
From: Color1 Sent: 7/25/2002 3:57 PM
The warranty from Ricoh thru RMAP is one year. This covers labor, the customer is responsible for toner and maintenance kits should they be required during that period. This is my understanding, does anyone know differently?
During my time with IKON, we were marketing pay as you go on color and it was an all inclusive deal. as I recall, we charged .125 for color and at one time there was a promotion for .08 per color print and this was last year.
Wow. That cpc is low. I was told, by Ricoh, to figure the same CPC as the 7000.
Ted is that your cost or is it what you are selling it for?
Ted is that your cost or is it what you are selling it for?
That is straight off the Ricoh Cost Fact Sheet for this model. These sheets are available on ROL. That is the actual cost to the dealer, not what we sell it for. But it is better than the 3800CMF & the CL7000CMF.