Tagged With "direct-to-garment"
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh
Have to remind customer of your long term involvement vs. price. Usually the differentiator...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh
Originally Posted by Art Post: Whoa there Art.... I've been with Canon (CSA) for 20 years. We have thousands of well satisfied customers. Not everyone everywhere is going to be happy but, to the chagrin of our competitors, most are. If they aren't, they will leave. You know it and I know it. We have ROE's that are rigidly enforced where I do business, we are not out to buy the business and the competition from Canon's own dealers often force prices to rock bottom margins. You've been at this...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh
I call complete bull **** on that. I am dealing with a customer right now whose quote from csa is 20% less than we can buy it for with all programs etc. the directs are blaming the dealers for running the industry into the ground? That's hilarious And I've heard that from Ricoh direct as well. Let's not forget who decided to bring out the A4 machines and drive the hardware revenues down to nothing and then start doing service at cost so the factory could continue to run. Those branches are...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh
I am dealing with this right now, my DBM is looking into it but I'm skeptical having lost two previous accounts to Ricoh Direct. One was a school district we had seven mfp's in Ricoh had one billable obsolete AF 650 so "technically" we weren't the incumbent. Ricoh has a lot of ways to get around their rules. Ricoh "says" the dealer cost is the same as direct but we see them sell at our cost all the time. Originally Posted by txeagle24: We've had issues with Ricoh finding (or try really hard...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh
Need to resort to good old salesmanship. Dealer service and personnel benefits. Best wishes..
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh
It's difficult to sell dealer service and benefits when your pricing is 30% higher. That's a lot of value to add and if anyone thinks they can truly do that much value on a regular basis, I want them on my team.
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh
That's about all I can tell my reps is good luck. Your not going to beat the directs on price. If you can sell the value of a dealer/customer relationship that's the best bet. My post may have sounded a little Blount/direct towards you which wasn't intended. I just get fed up when I see my reps bring quotes back that we can't even touch without losing money.
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh
Price , as an objection has always been challenging. I use to spread difference over 5 yrs then load up on advantages which I could offer. Sometimes it worked sometimes it didn't. You seem to be seasoned at this. If significant enough I brought DSM from Mfgr. That helped me get customers attn.. Usually mentioned to prospect longevity of rep from dealer vs. transition of direct contact if that helps. Let me know how you make out.. Again best wishes. What state are you in?
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh
Just got off the phone with my DBM and OF COURSE Ricoh has one machine in the county system so I can't keep them out if the board wants to consolidate under one vendor. I'm thinking my days as a sole source RFG dealer are over. I could add Sharp, they call me every now and then but EVERYONE around here sells Sharp. Looked at Kyocera once but they wanted $65k buy in. Suggestions?
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh
We're in Illinois. I have brought in my DSM/DBM and a Ricoh Solutions specialist when necessary didn't help in the last instance. When we see Xerox selling off the state contract they usually sell at below our US Communities cost. This is a broke ass state and price is often the only "value" they care about.Originally Posted by Larry Kirsch: Price , as an objection has always been challenging. I use to spread difference over 5 yrs then load up on advantages which I could offer. Sometimes it...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh
I would add a solid A4 lineup from Lexmark or Samsung. They're aggressively priced, & Ricoh would likely still consider you a single source dealer. A3 placements are on the decline, & A4 is the only growing segment, plus the aftermarket revenues and profits are higher.
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh
Sounds good. Years ago I was br. Mgr in loop for Savin.. Also had sharp/ Panasonic dealership nyc.. Business has changed but appears to be more lucrative nowadays . Kyocera may play out as good second line... Nice warranties for dealers.. Stay with it.. Where in Ill. Are you??
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh
Larry I am in NC. Have been doing this about 10 years. It's all I've done since college. I love the industry, for the most part, and really am at a point I couldn't afford to leave it behind. We are a family dealer so running the company has always been my goal so I've neve freaky wanted to leave either. For the ones that are single source RFG, we use to be in the same boat. We added Samsung in 2009 so we have seen tej good and the really bad of SAMSUNG. We brought on Kyocera for a short...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh
All sounds good. Bumped into Keith Allison last week. Is he in your area?? Anyhow sounds like you guys are well diversified . Re the tough prospect !! Perhaps an offer of a back up used copier could counter Ricoh 30% lower cost ? Try almost anything to get prospect on your side. Then next year inc price?? Maybe?? Lol
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh
Yes Keith has a branch in our area but we don't run into them that much. Yes we stuck it out with Ricoh for as long as we could. We really took a hard look at the dealer/manufacturer relationship when the ikon merger happened and we saw pricing in our area that was worse than we see now. What broke the camels back was when we asked for support from Ricoh to gain some of the canon accounts that we had engaged and Ricoh told us point blank to walk away from the deals because we would never win...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh
Sounds like you are on a roll. Keep up the good work...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh
mnchstr How about Muratec, they now have the A3 KonicaMInolta's also
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh
This has been a great thread so far! We're a mid size dealer in central pa and have most of the directs knocking around in our area. TABS, KMBS, RBS, CSA, Xerox and now Global just bought a small dealership. In addition we have quite a few other Indy dealers like us. I whole heartedly agree with what some one said before about selling the value of your company, service and the relationships. I've also told customers point blank I cannot compete with the directs price so if that's all that...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh
A lot of focus , dedication, and hard work always is helpful. A little luck also doesn't hurt. Best wishes.
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh
It has been that way for years in my area. If Canon enters the deal all profit is gone.
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh
Usually they sell at dealer cost less all incentives on accounts where they are the incumbent.
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh
Had a deal recently that we were the incumbent and CSA came in and placed the exact same machine as we tried. Customer gave us the quote and our true cost was around 14,000 or 15,000 and they sold it to them around $9,000.00. Anytime CSA is in a deal there is a very small chance of winning. The only thing we have going for us is their service is very lousy so after the lost sale we usually pick up a service agreement at some point. Ricoh has been good about enforcing the rules of engagement...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh
CSA operates under a lawless abandon. Their number one goal is to move boxes even at a loss. While they didn't lose as much this past year, they still didn't turn a profit for CUSA (canon USA) and no one at the top seemed to care. Having met some of the top tier dealers in the northeast, the sore in every single independent dealers side is canon solutions america / canon business solutions. We all know competition is out there, but to have to explain why us as a canon independent dealer is a...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh
Originally Posted by TML: CSA operates under a lawless abandon. Their number one goal is to move boxes even at a loss. While they didn't lose as much this past year, they still didn't turn a profit for CUSA (canon USA) and no one at the top seemed to care. Having met some of the top tier dealers in the northeast, the sore in every single independent dealers side is canon solutions america / canon business solutions. We all know competition is out there, but to have to explain why us as a...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh
Some things don't change... Rules of engagement lol multiple lines dare best protection for independents...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh
I was employeed by CBS (now CSA). I moved my family back to the east coast after working for 6 years in the Portland OR area for CBS as a production print specialist. Perhaps things have changed since I left CBS 2 years ago to come back to a Canon dealer... I was beaten and battered (related to my cost) when I was at CBS by all 5 local dealers. I now manage a sales team for a Canon dealer. We have never lost to CSA in the 3 years that I've in this position. In fact, I had a promo running for...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh
Art, Yes, Ricoh's ROE is serious business. If you're not seeing that in your territory, you need to contact their MVP, or even Mr. Brodigan himself, immediately. I've seen him take the matters into his hands personally. When you are moving half our gear a year, you hold more cards then you think. How Canon can afford not to is beyond me. I guess that's why we're seeing more Canon dealerships starting to carry our product.
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh
If you are referring to Canon Solutions America (former Oce), then yes Canon has been protecting their investment since day 1!
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh
Originally Posted by Christi: Art, Yes, Ricoh's ROE is serious business. If you're not seeing that in your territory, you need to contact their MVP, or even Mr. Brodigan himself, immediately. I've seen him take the matters into his hands personally. When you are moving half our gear a year, you hold more cards then you think. How Canon can afford not to is beyond me. I guess that's why we're seeing more Canon dealerships starting to carry our product. I too have seen personally very high...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh
We've had issues with Ricoh finding (or try really hard to find) ways around Rules of Engagement. One example I will use is a former customer I had that had all of their local Ricoh MFP placements with me but had a few old units from Xerox locally & several Ricoh units in a different market from RBS. The customer was looking to upgrade a Ricoh machine that I had placed a few years earlier. Ricoh went in and gave them pricing that was 25% lower than I could offer, & when we brought up...
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh
Frankly in my experiences the vendor (oem) will try to obtain the business , then negotiate with the dealer if they are unsuccessful going direct. Sounds like the game plan they employ.. Suggest working those things out prior to channel conflict. Long range consequence tends to upset customer who then selects another manufacturer altogether. Best wishes to those who encounter these circumstances... Try settling before not after..
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh
We have been very pleased with Ricoh's commitment to the ROE. We even got full credit for a sale that RBS made after we brought the discretion to Ricoh's attention.
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Re: Canon Business Systems Pulling a Ricoh
Where I work its the opposite. Canon and Canon dealers have no rules of engagement. However, dealers are typically 20% less than Canon direct.
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Re: New Ricoh Signature Series Color MFP's on the Web
Agree with your comments. Take a look at the Savin website, Lanier website, and the Ricoh USA website. The Savin website is in need of a major update...
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Re: New Ricoh Signature Series Color MFP's on the Web
Age old channel conflict issue. Does Ricoh Employ a dealer council. Might be a good idea to forward your thoughts to them. Best of luck and good selling...
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Re: New Ricoh Signature Series Color MFP's on the Web
Ricoh does employ a dealer council and would not know how to make that connection right now
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Re: New Ricoh Signature Series Color MFP's on the Web
Dealer sales rep may be able to assist?? Best wishes...
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Re: New Ricoh Signature Series Color MFP's on the Web
Get a quote from a Ricoh Professional...Now that's funny. But don't worry the dealers are the most important part of Ricoh's strategy and plans going forward. They can't even update the Savin or Lanier site. Being a Savin dealer I have people rather frequently who go on the site and are turned off by how old and outdated it looks.
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Re: New Ricoh Signature Series Color MFP's on the Web
I received an email from someone today, that because of this blog and the comments, this was escalated to the Dealer Council. Guess we'll have to wait and see.
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Re: New Ricoh Signature Series Color MFP's on the Web
Will be interesting to see what, if anything, ever comes of it. We have talked a lot before about leads from the manufacturer. Maybe, just maybe, that request a quote will be shared with dealers as well. Of course with is being a Savin dealer I won't hold my breath that "Ricoh" will send us leads. I've gotten a couple in the last few years but they came from the Savin website requests. Not sure what I've gotten from Ricoh lately except heartburn and stress.
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Re: Buyers Are Liars!
Unreal! I had to have this talk with a rep the other day. This girl sees the positive in everything and is about as happy go lucky as anyone I've ever met. She didn't believe me that buyers are liars. She got strung along with a customer that was going to lunch with her, having a glass of wine in the evening with her, all the while telling her she would have an order soon. She stopped by her office and there was a brand new machine sitting there and it had been there for a couple weeks.
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Re: Buyers Are Liars!
@Jason H thanks, I just needed to vent. The longer you're in this business you realize that an order is not an order until the copier has been delivered and sometimes that's not a done deal either.
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Re: Buyers Are Liars!
That's awful Art. I'm sure many of us can relate to that story in one way or another. This was a first for me; I was working a new account for over a year, they were completely unorganized and had no handle on the printing/copying expenses throughout the country. The whole time my contact was telling me that we were going to get the business and that I've shown him that his account was mismanaged. Then the infamous "ghosting" occurred, no calls back, no responses to e-mail. Then at 10pm one...
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Re: Buyers Are Liars!
Preach! Oh how about this one: when the net - new prospect speaks horribly about their current vendor, how bad their service is, and how much they want to move to someone else. You provide a fantastic proposal, they tell you how great it is, and thats when the crickets begin. You find out a couple weeks later when you finally get them on the phone that they decided to stay with their current vendor, because of one of the following reasons: 1. They didnt want to upset the status quo 2. All of...
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Re: Committed to Dealer Success
So are you saying as a customer you wouldn't expect to be able to go to a manufactures website and locate a dealer? Am I supposed to go find the product I want then go someplace else to find where to buy it.
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Re: Committed to Dealer Success
No I'm not. In the case of Formax, you would call them and they would give you the name of the Authorized Dealer and I'm assuming it would be the same case with Muratec since there are no dealer locators on their web sites. Is there really a need to have 6-8 dealers covering the same geo area along with the Direct channel. Here's an example, in my territory in which we are Authorized I can't remember the last time I received a lead. Some of the manufacturers sights are slanted to delivering...