Tagged With "scam"

Art, it's a part of the industry that I doubt you will get rid of. I would like to add my own "observation". I don't think that 99.9% of dealers do a good deal. If 99.9% was the case these instances would not even be noticed because they would be unheard of. I think the reality is that around 60-70% of dealers are OK. Another point is that the leasing companies do not give a damn about the state of the copier at the end of a lease. As long as the customer has made all the payments they're...

Grant: Thanx for the comment, here in the US there is the trade agreement also but it varies from dealer to dealer. If the customer opts to return the system then the dealer has the option to buy the equipment.

Sorry Grant but I have to call you out.It is a big mistake for salespeople to assume that what is true in their case, is true across the board. It causes the salesrep to make mistakes in judgement and may cause them to unintentionally misinform their prospect. Anything that isn't required by law is negotiable and therefore will vary from lease company to lease company and dealer to dealer. So two dealers using the same lease company may have negotiated different terms.

Even if the contract with the supplying dealer specifically has a clause that says the dealer will NOT buy the kit back, the lease co don't want it. I have never heard of a leasing company actually asking for the kit back at the end of a lease, they aren't interested. It's not part of their business plan. What is required as a condition on every lease is that the lessee is responsible for returning the equipment to a destination of the lease co's choice. If it does come to that it will go to...

That's not really the point I was trying to make. The point is that a salesrep shouldn't assume anything as fact because the facts vary from dealer to dealer and lease to lease. That having been said, you are missing a big part of the lease equation and that is the "alternative forms of revenue" that comes at the end of the lease. Anytime a lease is ended effectively, the lease company loses the chance of an automatic renewal (evergreen clause), in some cases they lose the chance to sell the...

It's easy to work out where the lease co's make their money. Every time a deal is upgraded early the early settlement discount is a paltry sum (3%). The effective interest rates are therefore huge. This settlement is then more often added to a new lease and interested lumped on top of that. There's no factoring in of a residual kit value for the lease companies, too little money for too much effort and management. That's why they don't handle the kit and insist the customer or dealer does...

Again, you are stating as fact things that are only true for you or possibly only true in the UK. Over here, I haven't seen an early settlement discount in years. Many companies actually have a pre-payment penalty. The settlement added to the new lease that you speak of is only a benefit to the lease company when the new deal goes to the incumbent. And if there is no residual, why isn't the equipment free to the dealer at the back end? The price to the dealer whether contracted in advance or...

I did a search on the web for the company I was speaking about and I found out that there is a law suite pending against for 25 missing copiers!! Where there is smoke there is fire!

" Many companies actually have a pre-payment penalty". Any clause which is an attempt to penalise a party if they try and terminate a contract early is illegal in the UK. This is not the same as liquidated damages clauses, where the injured party is entitled to compensation. I'm pretty the same legislation applies in the US?

How is it that you are familiar with the laws in the U.S.? Tell me what this is if not a pre-payment penalty? "...You may not payoff this Agreement prior to the end of the Agreement term without our consent and We may charge You, in addition to the other amounts owed under this Agreement, an early termination fee equal to five percent (5%) of the total amount We paid for the Equipment. 9. USE AND MAINTENANCE. You agree that the Equipment is owned by Us and will be used for business..."

I do a lot of "contract disassembling" and am very successful at it - It's kind of like a fun sport or hobby to me. US & UK contract law are almost exactly the same. That would be an unenforceable penalty in both UK & US. Here's a reference to "Penal Damages" on Wikipedia that refers to US law. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_damages Most of the people I know who work in the copier industry are of the belief that these clauses are legal and enforceable. That works to my advantage,...

I've almost never seen a disputed copier lease where the lessee wins. I'll admit I'm no expert in leasing however most of these agreements are rock solid.

I will never understand why Business Equipment Leases do not fall under the Truth In Lending laws that apply to everything else.

That's a great question, it should, it would drive more paperwork, however the leasing industry would be better off in the long run. Originally Posted by Old Glory: I will never understand why Business Equipment Leases do not fall under the Truth In Lending laws that apply to everything else.

I'm not sure if that has an equivalent in the UK. here we have the Consumer Credit Act. However, it only applies to consumers. Business to business isn't covered (except in a small number of cases). "I've almost never seen a disputed copier lease where the lessee wins. I'll admit I'm no expert in leasing however most of these agreements are rock solid." In my experience the reason why they're perceived as rock solid is because they are rarely challenged. If they're not challenged they'll...

You obviously deal with this much more than I but tell me this...Regardless of past emails and/or conversations, if the customer can prove that they own the equipment then they have proof that the leasing company leased an asset they didn't own. What more do you need?

No doubt it's fraud, that's an open and shut case. But I may never get to the bottom of why the individual in the organisation signed the agreement. I'll leave that to the imagination. It's a tough one as well, it was signed by the sister of the owner of the business!!

This is horrible! It's happened in Portland as well! A small independent dealer almost went under because of the salesman that did the same thing, all within 30 days! I sure hope someone presses charges...

Sadly, I've seen this happen too many times - the scam is always the same. Salesman offering up something that seems to good to be true and it ends up not being true. The best defense against this is to due some looking into the vendor that you are going to be doing business with - how long have they been in business, what organizations are they part of, references, are they authorized by the manufacturer to sell the product would be a start. I agree with muleyman - they need to press...

I ran across yet another scam from a copier dealer.  First let me point out that 99.9% of the dealers out there are great at what they do and great to do business with.  However in any industry there are always a few bottom feeders that...

DENVER — A Fox31 Denver News hidden camera investigation reveals several area church congregations are praying for a man who is accused of preying on churches. Fox 31 Denver has tracked down five Colorado church pastors who claim they were duped by copy machine salesman Greg Mosher. Pastor Pat Barnes with Faith Mountain in Lakewood said Mosher scammed his congregation out of $10,000. Barnes said, “I think ripping off anybody is just wrong.” \ Pastor Jimmy Smith of Stapleton Fellowship Church...

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You would think after 50 plus years that the Toner Pirates would have disappeared my hearties. One of my clients was approached via voice mail today in a phone message that was translated to text. Thank goodness this old seadog spotted the scam right away when I viewed the email my client sent me. In the old days toner pirates that gave no quarter. Those pirates would go right for the jugular with the make and model of the copier. The stating they are your copier supplier and prices are...