It's been somewhat of an interesting year for me in sales.  My first eight months were nothing short of spectacular, however the last three months have been a real grind and no where near spectacular.  Matter a fact the story has been under achievement to say the least.

Thus I find my self in the same spot every year. One month left to go and I haven't written my ticket for annual quota and President's Club. 

But there's so much to be thankful for in 2019.  We have an awesome collection of Print4Pay Hotel members that are willing to share their knowledge and help others.  We have an awesome coalition of vendors that have supported the Print 4Pay Hotel, with out them I wouldn't be able to do what I do.  All I ask is that we click on their banner ads on the site and the email update and to give them a buzz when information or a product is needed.

I'm also thankful that my wife puts up with my bad days,  those bad days always seem to rear that ugly side at least once a month.  I'm thankful for the great relationships I've built with our members, you know who you are and I'm thankful that you take my calls, and listen to my rants.  Your friendship means a lot to me and continues to drive my passion for keeping the Print4Pay Hotel going.

Thanksgiving has always been a time when I reflect back on the year and ask myself what do I have to be thankful for.  As I start my 40th year in copier sales next year it's a little daunting since now I'm the really old dog on the block.  The knees, and the legs aren't what they use to be, just today I pounded the pavement looking for additional opportunities. It never stops does it?  What ever happened to this business getting easier after you've built your base?

One of the best times I've had this year is interviewing those sales people that came before me with "The Selling Copiers in the Seventies" blog series.  There's one common denominator with everyone, it's all about the effort and how hard you want to work (there is no special magic sauce, magic lines, or cute gimmicks).  Where the heck can you start as a sales person and then end up becoming the President or CEO? It's the copier business for sure.

There's always one special blog that look back to.  That link is in every Sunday night email address that I send.  That blog was written by one of our members and I'll cherish it until the day I retire or get hit by a bus (kidding). 

Value of the P4P Forum was written a little over four years ago at this time of year.  "The Value of the P4P Hotel Forum",  Jason Habbal wrote it and it's awesome that he delivers what the Print4Pay Hotel is all about.  I couldn't have done a better job.   To date that blog has almost 800 views and hoping it can get another 800.

I love selling copiers ever since I wrote my first order, and of course got my first commission check.  I'm not sure where the industry will be in twenty years but I know that if I'm still healthy I'll still want to be involved.

Thanks to everyone and may every one have a blessed Thanksgiving with family & friends.

PS:  it's fraking time to nail down that quota!

-=Good Selling=-

@Jason H

I've never had the chance to meet Carl Little in person, however Carl has been a long time member of the Print4Pay Hotel.  Over the years I've been able to glean valuable knowledge from Carl with his posts on our forums.  At the end of the blog we'll have the LinkedIn profile for Carl if you'd like to reach out to him.  You could also post a response here if you like.

How did you find your way to the copier industry?

After graduating college in 1974 from a small college in Kansas & playing football, I decided that my career would be coaching high school & college football which I did for 7 years.  The whole coaching staff was fired one day & I found myself out of work. 

There was an article written about me in the Topeka newspaper on the front page of the sports section about me looking for a coaching job & I got a lot of calls, one of them was from Xerox.  They said they’d had great success with coaches & teachers as sales people for our company, and I said “Be a salesperson? I don’t even like salespeople!” 

They were smart enough to have me talk to a former coach who was working in sales for Xerox, and he sold me on coming to work for Xerox as a summer job & if didn’t work out then I could go and coach in the fall some place.  It worked out, I made too much money & couldn’t afford to go back into coaching so I stayed at Xerox.

What company & manufacturer did you start with?  What was your title & what year did you start?

I started with Xerox in 1979 as a down the street sales rep basically covering Lawrence, KS with not many machines in the field. 

If you worked for a dealer, please tell us what brands you sold & why that was your favorite.

I worked for Xerox for 2 years & my favorite machine was the Xerox 2300 because it was small enough that I could almost carry it myself to my appointments and do demos for potential clients.  One day I sold 2 of them & promised a delivery by Friday which was pretty much impossible to deliver a machine that quickly from Xerox.  I took my company station wagon & drove to Kansas City and put one machine on a gurney inside the car, and strapped another one to the top of the car, then drove back to Lawrence to install both of those that I had just sold.  On my way back to Lawrence, my boss (and the best boss I ever had, Jack Goodson) called me on my shoebox sized cell phone & asked me what I was doing.  And I said I am delivering 2 machines that I sold in Lawrence & I’ll be back to the office tonight with a check for $20,000.  And he said you come directly to my office when you get back because you can’t put machines on top of cars while working for Xerox.  So I went to his office & said “Do you want this $20k or not?”  And he said “Yes, but if you ever do that again I will have to fire you.”  He then asked how I got the machine on the car to begin with, to which I replied that I paid someone $20 to help & I would expense it.

What was the percentage of copier salesmen that made it past 2 years & what made them last long or not so long?

I was fortunate to be in a training class with some pretty powerful people including Jim Quesenberry who was a copier dealer in Springfield, MO for over 25 years.  Karen Spencer was in that class who was also with Xerox for 31 years & Rick Taylor who is now the president & CEO of Konica Minolta US, and then there was me, the former football coach who just knew how to work hard.  The people that didn’t make it simply didn’t put in the effort to make calls every day & didn’t understand how hard it was to make sales & thus weren’t successful because they didn’t do the legwork.

What did you like most about your job in the 70’s?

I liked the flexibility of being able to do what I wanted & needed to do during the day.  Calling on potential clients was fun for me, I enjoyed meeting new people, learning about their business, and putting a plan together to help them manage their business better with our equipment.  Being recruited away by Savin from Xerox was a game changer in my career because I had the opportunity to work with a Japanese manufacturer trying to break into the US market.

What did you dislike the most about your job in the 70’s?

I became a dealer sales manager for Savin corporation calling on dealers in Central & West Texas and working for Woody Giezentanner.  Calling on dealers to help them sell more of our product was great but traveling 4 nights a week was tough on myself & my young family.  I ended up making a decision to do something different.  Something different was buying a small dealership in Corpus Christi, moving my young family there, and taking on the new role of owning a copier dealership.

What was the compensation plan like?  Was there a salary, commissions or a mix of both?

The money at Xerox was really good because I had come from the coaching world where the money was terrible.  The money at Savin was better & then the money running our dealership was terrible because we paid our people first, our bills second, and whatever was left we took home.  For a couple of years there was nothing to take.

How did you go about finding new business?  What was your favorite way of doing it & why?

As a territory rep for Xerox, making 40-50 cold call door knocks a day was not unusual.  While working for Savin as a dealer sales manager, teaching people to make those number of calls a day was important & those that did it were successful and those who didn’t were not.  It was strictly a numbers game. 

Owning our own business in south Texas, I was pretty much the only sales rep for a few years, and I remember going home for lunch one day and telling my wife I didn’t think we would make it in south Texas.  To which she said “You’ve moved me twice, each time further away from my family, so I suggest you eat your sandwich & get back out there because you are going to make this work, you have no choice.” So I went back to the office & loaded 2 machines in the back of the van and made a deal with myself that I wasn’t going back home until I sold them for cash that day.  I sold them both that day & I was happy, and that’s how I sold machines going forward and that is how we built our in south Texas.  Needless to say, I stopped going home for lunch.

What was the first sales book that you read & what did you take away from it?

The first book I read was called “Iacocca: An Autobiography” written by Lee Iacocca who was the then CEO of Chrysler Corporation.  I took away that you have to be creative in business & you have to be professionally persistent which means you can’t take no for an answer.  That was a time when Iacocca was very popular & we gave away lots of hard copy books of his if people would come to our office & take a look at the equipment we were selling.

Can you tell us a couple of funny stories about selling copiers in the 70’s?

My first day in the field by myself while working for Xerox, I was told by my manager to go out and make 30 calls & bring back 30 business cards with the dates of service contract renewals written on the back.  I got to Lawrence, KS around 7:30 that morning with plans to make my first call at 8:00, and I made my first call that morning to a Veterinary Clinic & I was chatting with the receptionist for a few minutes when the doctor came around the corner and threw me out of his office and told me not to return, so I left.  I went back to the park where I was sitting & made a decision that I wasn’t going to do this for a living, the rejection was to hard so I was going to quit.  So I called my girlfriend & invited her to lunch and she said “Lunch starts at 11:30, it’s only 8:30 so I will see you at the restaurant then.”  As we were having lunch, the same doctor who had thrown me out of his office that morning walked in for his lunch.  He saw me, approached our table & said “I owe you an apology.  Last night my wife of 30 years told me she wanted a divorce & you were the first person I saw and so I lashed out at you & you didn’t deserve that.  Come & see me this afternoon, I need a new copier.” 

What is the biggest problem you see facing the industry today?

The biggest problem I see is that print & copy volumes are down, pricing is way too cheap, and the competition is just dumping product into the marketplace at any cost they can get without regard for quality in performance & reasonable profit margins. 

If you had to would you do it all over again?  If so, what would you change?

This is my 40^th year in the office equipment business & I have been very blessed to work with & for some great people, and also able to own 4 companies that we bought, built & sold with great people that helped us do that.  From great manufacturers to great employees to great bankers, accountants & lawyers which allowed us to be the best we could for our clients & in turn they were very loyal to us because of those things.

What is one piece of knowledge that you would like to share with new reps entering our industry?

I would offer that this is a blue collar, hard work, integrity built industry, and if you work your butt off & do it every single day, you can make a lot of money.  I would suggest you work for a great company, put in the work, be proactive with networking, and do not be afraid to ask the client if you have done enough to earn their business. 

End

I have always believed the Master Service Provider business model to be unscalable in providing the MSPs who use them a differentiator. I also believe Master Service Providers have financially unsustainable models without continuous outside investment dollars.

However, If everything is perfect with the Master Service Provider deliverable, it would be an excellent service to the industry for all Master Service Providers to share the financial numbers highlighting their success. I am sure I am not the only one questioning this.

I wanted to share some thoughts on the importance of profit. And ask the MSP community have they seen the financials of those; they trust outsourcing to? Master Service Providers may be successful and profitable. The question is, what if they are not?

It seems as some businesses get sold with little celebration and some have big celebrations. Is the lack of celebration an indication there is nothing to celebrate? I was thinking of the fanfare, which followed the ConnectWise sale to Thoma Bravo. Remember all the great press congratulating Arnie Bellini. Remember the numbers. Not only were they massive, but the world was also made aware of just how successful Arnie and his team at ConnectWise were. ConnectWise was indeed honored, and they definitely deserved all of their accolades.I still say, Congratulations ConnectWise! Job well done!

So, where were the celebrations when Thoma Bravo bought Continuum? There were no revenue numbers yelled from roof tops, and there were no leaders highlighted exiting with millions of dollars. Did Thoma Bravo simply bail out Continuum's previous private equity partner from a questionable investment? It does seem as Thoma Bravo had a plan as we recently witnessed Continuum sold to ConnectWise.

However, again, this second sale of Continuum, still no balloons or real celebrating. Still, no revenue or profit numbers shared. Of, course private companies don't have to share their numbers, and Private Equity is a great place to hide when investments are stalled in reaching their acceptable ROI. It does seem as a decade of investments is long time to go without hitting the home run, and if they did hit a home run no one in the stadium knows it.

Why is this observation of mine important to MSPs? Well, if the reality is, Continuum after a decade in multiple private equity relationships was not profitable enough to brag about or is somehow ashamed of its financial track record. The MSPs on their platform should take note and question why? Bottom Line MSPs should know the level of Continuum's success.

Any organization can grow in size and have massive customer bases if they are void the responsibility of healthy financials and get continuous outside cash infusions. It does seem as Private Equity throws money at things banking on what I call "A hope it works out platform." Was Continuum another hope it works out platform? or, was Continuum a massively successful company?

I think the MSP community members who depend on master service provider platforms. Should demand to know the financial details of the Master Service Providers they trust servicing their end-users technology infrastructures.

MSPs should perform due diligence on their Master Service Provider. It's the answers to questions that are the keys to understanding options.

ConnectWise is a hugely successful business on its own. If Continuum was not, how long will ConnectWise invest in a failing business model? Or, how will ConnectWise change Continuum's model for it to be financially successful? All business leaders realize anything that can't stand on its own will suck the life and profit of the supporting company. I don't see the new ConnectWise leadership destroying what Arie built by dumping money in "A Hope it works out platform."

All MSPs must understand the stability of the Master Service Providers they use. The market is propped up with Private Equity, and it seems there are some investments made on hope over market realities. Unprofitability is the sign the business model is broken. I don't think it's out of line to ask the questions. If Continuum is profitable along with revenue growth, it seems the market would be well served knowing that. And of course, the market should also be aware of any threats to Continuum's stability. Or, the changes ConnectWise may make to bring stability to Continuum if needed.

In these times of buyouts and Private Equity Investments, MSPs should not only question their deliverables, but they should also examine those partners they outsource services of their end-users to.

All MSPs are asked to provide their credit information by every product manufacturer, software provider, and yes, sometimes even the Master Service Providers they outsource. Maybe it's time MSPs demand the credit information on the Master Service Providers they hire.

This due diligence, I suggest is not just regarding Continuum. Any Master Service Provider MSPs outsource to, should share their financial results. Keep in mind the Master Service Provider entity's numbers must be separated from parent companies who own them.

It does not matter if ConnectWise is profitable; it matters if Continuum was on its own. I would say the same regarding Collabrance, which is a Master Service Provider wholly owned by Great America Leasing. If Collabrance is not profitable as a stand-alone entity after nearly a decade, is their model broken? If Collabrance is profitable on its own Its MSP partners should also know that. If its not, what will happen if Great America, through market pressures involving their core deliverable of leasing, needed to adjust cost. Would they continue feeding Great America's profits to Collabrance?

"In business, one's hoped-for outcome will be challenged by market realities"

Maybe both Continuum and Collabrance standing on their own are rock solid profitable businesses. If they are both will welcome the conversation and appreciate the opportunity to share that with their MSP partners. If they are not profitable, the dialogue will allow the industry to understand the facts to the condition of the Master Service Provider deliverable. Maybe it's time to reinvent a better way? Or, is there a better way already?

MSPs the customers you service are responsible to you. If your Master Service Provider goes away, how will you respond? Unanswered questions are where surprises are found. All MSPs will be faced with challenges over the next few years. It will be essential to understand all options and equally important to understand as much as possible of the Master Service Providers to whom you outsource.

Isn't it time the industry's MSPs asked more questions? 

“Status Quo is the Killer of all that will be invented.”

 Ray Stasieczko

I welcome all to subscribe to my YouTube channel, https://www.youtube.com/channe...A?view_as=subscriber

Here’s the link to my LinkedIn profile and I welcome your invite if you wish to connect. https://www.linkedin.com/in/raystasieczko/

November 24^th, 2019

MSP & MSSP Industry Notes

Sponsored by

Arcoa Group

ARCOA Group is here to help you successfully manage your IT Asset Disposition process. We help you recover value from retired electronic equipment through responsible methods of reuse and recycling.  We ensure proper handling of assets which may contain data, while being environment stewards for assets that have no reuse value and are headed for recycling. We’ve built a robust de-manufacturing process to offer additional options for asset value recovery by disassembling equipment for commodity grade materials, which can be diverted from landfills and be used to create new base materials

Google Cloud Print Is Shutting Down

• Posted on forbes.com, an email was sent to users of Google Cloud Print notifying that service will no longer be supported at the conclusion of December 2020. Cloud Print was launched back in 2010

Collabrance® Celebrates 10 Year Milestone

• Collabrance® located in Cedar Rapids, Iowa (Subsidiary Great America Company) a privately head Managed Service Provider
• Celebrates 10 anniversary as a “Master MSP” with white labeling IT solutions and services
• “We're excited to use this moment to reflect on the past 10 years, look ahead to evolve our business into the future, and celebrate all we've accomplished together,” says Greg VanDeWalker, Vice President of IT Channel & Services at GreatAmerica and Collabrance.

Converge Technology Solutions Corp. Acquires VSS, LLC

• Converge Technology Solutions located in Toronto, Canada announces acquisition all of the voting and economic membership interests of VSS Holding, LLC
• VSS Holdings is a technology solutions provider that eleven locations throughout the United States
• "VSS is now poised to deliver a more widely-based platform of services to its customers while still offering its top-of-the-line customer service and white glove treatment to ensure that their business objectives are met or exceeded," said Robert L. Jernoske, Jr., CEO of VSS.

SolarWinds Is Recognized as a November 2019 Gartner Peer Insights Customers' Choice for IT ...

• Solar Winds based in Austin, Texas (USA) is a provider of IT management software
• Announced that it was named November 2019 Gartner Peer Insights Customers Choice for IT Service Management Tools
• “We are honored to be named a Gartner Peer Insights Customers’ Choice for IT Service Management Tools and believe it recognizes our dedication to providing our customers with the best possible solutions that will empower their employees,” said Lee McClendon, general manager and senior vice president of ITSM at SolarWinds
• Peer Insights is an online platform of ratings and reviews of IT software and services that are written and read by IT professional along with technology decision-makers

InterVision Announces Comprehensive Managed SD-WAN Offering

• Based with regional offices in Santa Clara, California and Saint Louis, Missouri and is a strategic service provider for IT managed services
• Announces introduction of their Managed SD-Wan offering
• “Security is top of mind for IT leaders, but many enterprises struggle to balance these measures with other business priorities,” said Derek Brost, Director of Professional Services
• According to a recent report from Global Market Insights, Inc., SD-WAN is projected to grow to an industry valuation of $17 billion by 2025. InterVision’s Managed SD-WAN service can assist with any existing WAN additions, changes or requests for information while improving overall performance through close monitoring of operations.

SolarWinds Continues to Drive Customer Success Through Growth of its Learning Portal, the MSP ...

• Solar Winds back in the news with announcing its MSP Institute which is an on-line learning web site designed to provide training for business, sales, marketing and technical courses, continues to grow and drive client success
• Since the site was launched back in February of 2019, Solar Winds has intro’d 120 courses with an average rating of 4.76 stars out of 5
• More than 38,000 sessions have been logged
• Lisa Niekamp-Urwin, president and CEO at Tomorrow’s Technology Today, said, “The MSP Institute helps to bring our partnership with SolarWinds to the next level – beyond just the technology. SolarWinds is taking the time to invest in what I need to keep taking my business to the next level. They have always offered me resources anytime to help me, but now it is organized and professional. Definitely a win, win. And it’s great to see this included in my partnership and not a nickel and dime experience. I appreciate that.”

Collective Defence comes to the UK: ITC Secure unveils partnership with IronNet Cybersecurity ...

• London, England ITC Secure a managed security service provider forms a new partnership with United States based IronNet Cybersecurity and has launched the United Kingdom’s first advanced collective defense platform
• Arno Robbertse, Chief Executive of ITC Secure said “This is a fantastic addition to our portfolio of managed cyber security services. It’s a pleasure and privilege to bring IronNet to the UK, and working with General Keith and his team has been tremendous.
• Companies like ours have talked for years of strength in depth, now we have gone further than that and can offer collective defence. It’s a step change, and in perfect synergy with our world class SOC.”
• ITC more than twenty years in business and delivers Cyber Security solutions to organizations in more than 180 countries
• IronNet Cybersecurity founded in 2014 and is a worldwide cybersecurity leader

NTT Com Wins Two MEF 3.0 Proof of Concept Awards

• Tokyo, Japan ITC solutions and international communications business under the NTT Group
• Announces reception of MEF 3.0 Proof of Concepts Award in two categories

“MEF3.0 SD-WAN Implementation 2019”

“Network Slicing Implementation 2019”

ITPartners+ Achieves Highest Partner Status with Major IT Solutions Provider

• ITPartners+ located in Grand Rapids, Michigan is a managed service provider that serves government agencies and businesses
• Announces achievement of Blue Partner Status with Datto
• Blue Status is reserved for Datto top 5 percent of partners worldwide
• "We couldn't be prouder of our entire team at ITParners+ for such a great achievement" said Kevin Damghani, Chief Partner Experience Engineer at ITPartners+
• "We are thrilled to recognize ITPartners+ as a Blue Partner," said Rob Rae, Vice President of Business Development, Datto. "We are committed to providing ITPartners+, and all of our partners, with the necessary capabilities to develop deep relationships with their customers and keep growing their brands and businesses. "
• ITPartners+ was founded two years ago by Kevin Damghani and Jonathan Highman as a B2B extension of their successful break-fix company, Computer Rescue 911.

Allstream Unveils IT CloudView to Elevate Managed IT to the Next Level

• Allstream based in Toronto, Canada
• Allstream's offerings include a range of innovative, highly scalable, managed services including IP, cloud, voice, and data solutions for enterprise customers
• Announces new managed IT solution, IT CloudView, IT departments and C-suite

• IT CloudView automatically optimizes and delivers superior performance in wireless environments, even under intense interference conditions.
• • A cloud-based approach offers the latest and greatest technology, without the overhead of on-premises infrastructure and the costs associated with maintaining those disparate systems with updates automatically pushed from the Cloud.
  • IT CloudView ties video surveillance into networking solutions, so safety concerns can be addressed. In fact, the IT CloudView dashboard provides secure monitoring and management of all cameras from anywhere in the world — no extra software required. This provides peace of mind to employees and customers. It also safeguards businesses from fraudulent claims.
  • With the ability to see network trends and anomalies instantly, IT CloudView provides new insights into how the network is being used and where trouble might be lurking. The ability to find any individual client device that has recently connected to the network, along with where and when they arrived, can be crucial for both monitoring network performance and for troubleshooting. Finally, the ultimate network in visibility all in one place.

Segra Expands Managed Services Offering with Security Operations Center as a Service (SOCaaS)

• Segra based in Charolotte, North Carolina (USA) provides Ethernet, MPLS, dark fiber, advanced data center services, IP and managed services, voice and cloud solutions, all backed by its industry-leading service and reliability
• Annouces its Security Operations Center as a Service (SOCaaS) offering
• Key features

Ingram Micro Gets Creative With New Financing Capabilities For MSPs, VARs

• Posted on CRN
• Announcing that it has expanded channel financing capabilities in new ways to help it’s MSP and SMB partners
• Ingram Micro One conference, held this week in Denver, to support its partners with as-a-service models, said Kelly Carter, the company's new chief country financial officer for its Canada business

San Diego Supercomputer Center Supersizes Advanced Storage with Qumulo for its Data ...

• Qumulo based in Seattle, Washington (USA) provides enterprise hybrid cloud file storage
• Announces San Diego Supercomputer Center has selected Qumulo’s distributed file system to offer to its scientific research clients
• SDSC is a managed services provider (MSP) for the scientific community, government, business and academia
• "Our storage requirements for data projects are growing from tens of terabytes to hundreds of terabytes," said Amit Majumdar, Ph.D., director of data enabled scientific computing at SDSC. "Large data transfer and storage, high-speed access, sharing, search functionalities -- all of these are becoming more and more important for our projects."

The industries top sales peeps reside at the Print4Pay Hotel!

Enjoy these threads from 15 years ago this week!

Member

littlerascal

Dang, it's been ten year since Canon bought OCE.  Interesting that it took ten years to finally retire the OCE brand.

Ten years ago I was blogging about the War for A4, I also find it interesting that the war has been going on for 10 years now, and finally people are starting to pay attention.

Enjoy These awesome threads from ten years ago this week!

Okay so what's the news for this week?  Well I've turned in another crappy month. However I was able to add almost 10 opportunities for December for about $100K. Thus I have 25 opportunities to get closed before the end of the year.  Oh the stress of all this!

Enjoy these awesome threads from 5 years ago this week!

I had the opportunity to meet Chuck many years ago, thinking it was at one  of the first Ricoh dealer events I attended back in the nineties.  Chuck was one of the speakers and I was floored by his public speaking ability.  Somewhere during those few days I made it a point to introduce myself to Chuck and thanked him for the awesome performance.

How did you find your way into the copier industry?

When I graduated from college in 1972 I and a lifelong childhood friend and I started a small furniture design and  manufacturing  company…. custom furniture in a shop in Upstate NY.  We labored for 2 years making prototypes and selling a few commissioned pieces until the strain of “2 artists painting one painting” caused us to split up the same day Richard Nixon resigned-August 8 1974. . 

At the time my wife-to-be was living in NYC area and that was where I was headed and needed a job. I would drive to NYC from upstate and prospect for sales jobs since I had no technical professional degree-( Government BA).   My father worked in an IBM factory from the late 30s until he died in 1971.  I knew it was a great company so I found where IBM was in the NY area….HQ in Armonk NY.  That must be where the people who run the company are so I drove up there , walked in to the cavernous lobby of this huge block of a building .  As I walked across the lobby which seemed 100 yards long toward the receptionist who I swear sat up about 10 ft above me .  I felt 3 ft tall and said in may shakiest voice “ I’m here to see whoever hires sales people…..she did the worst thing she could, she giggled .   This was IBM World Headquarters.

She gave me the address of the nearby IBM Sales branch in White Plains.  I went there and dropped off  a resume.  Shortly after  I went to a homecoming football game at my college and bumped in to a classmate. We had the usual  “what are you doing?” type conversation that you have when you are in your early 20s.  My answer “ looking for work “ and he handed  me his card and said “we’re looking for people”   I was Hired after several interviews wearing my best non-matching gray polyester sport coat and best dark blue dress pants. They sold copiers .  If my college friend  had worked for Nabisco I could just as easily had a career in selling Oreo cookies  as one of my future neighbors did.

What company or manufacturer did you start with, what was your title and what year did you start?             

I started in the Xerox New York Downtown branch, 60 Broad St, November  1974 where my friend was on the Legal Team selling to the many downtown NY law firms.    

I started as a trainee with no territory and no machine base.  It was all about finding new business and this was in the smallest geographic branch Xerox had – the tip of Manhattan – 2 square miles. From Canal St and south to the Battery which included Governors Island which had the Coast Guard’s North American Iceberg Patrol HQ.   Those were the days of going to the top floor of a building and cold calling as you went down the 20 or 30 or 80 stories. Almost no restrictions except to try to get past the receptionist which most offices had.  But they were good in not giving you much ....the lesser savvy might give you a name to call. I worked the streets (and elevators) my first year sales before I got a Government Territory.  North Tower.  At the time saying “Xerox Rep” was almost like a password to go to wherever I might have a machine installed.

If you worked for a dealer please tell us what brands you sold and what was your favorite model top sell and why that was your favorite?

 I didn't work for a dealer in the 70s or 80s but sold Direct for 7 years.  I evolved into the Dealer World when I was one of the first Americans hired by Ricoh in May 1981 to help build a dealer driven Major Account Programs. But selling is selling .   My first Xerox territory with any MIF was handling named  Government accounts (must have been that Govt BA)  – some State /some Federal and many NYC Govt accounts- NYS Water ,  NYFD HQ. NYPD HQ. The FBI, NYC Planning , Highways , Prisons throughout Manhattan etc. 

I also handled the Mayors office and NYS Governors NY office etc. many of my State accounts were in World Trade Center 2.  My mode quickly became defensive in that during the 60s and 70s my predecessors had oversold many agencies who also seemed to have no restraint.  The mid 70s brought tough times to NY Government- near bankruptcy,  and I had many machines doing low volume costing high dollars. We were in a mode of defending and re-configuring the machine install base and fighting against Savin on the low end and Kodak and IBM on the high end.  Favorite machine to sell – the XEROX 9200- 120 ppm / auto doc feed and limitless sort and only $100K (equal to lot of money then and now) My most hated machines to sell against were the Kodak 150 on the high end with its super high copy quality and the Savin 770 on the low end with it super low pricing . The veterans reading this will remember them well.     

    What was the percentage of copier sales people that made it past two years and why made them last or not last so long?        

Xerox hired and trained people very well  in those days at their brand new Sales school in Leesburg VA..They invested in you for one solid year allowing you to learn about sales...learn about the product...learn about business...and learn about yourself as a salesperson. 

The turnover rate was not as high at XRX as what I have since observed at many dealers who I worked with closely while at Ricoh.  I would say about half of XRX new hires lasted the first 2 years in those days.  My class of 5 rookies had 2 of us left after 2 years .  Why ?  Grit ...hard work ….some luck in having a good territory opportunity.  Why did some fail ? Young and Dumb so to speak.  Not mature enough to handle the initial lack of success.  And some laziness and lack of work ethic. 

My first territory was probably one of the worst in the NY Downtown Branch since my government accounts were oversold and the financial conditions were  horrible.  That was one of the reasons my territory was available because the folks who sold much of that left for greener pastures .  Several who had been on the Downtown Government Team went on work for Savin.   I worked throughout the years of NYC s near bankruptcy working hard to consolidate many of the convenience machines throughout agencies and design High Volume Copy Centers using the XRX 92/94/9500 Systems from 1975-79.   

I did not make nearly as many $s as counterparts on the Legal or Financial teams in the Branch.    Xerox management, all the way up to David Kearns (CEO at the time ) understood the battle - we were defending a vulnerable base to aggressive competition (Kodak , Savin ,IBM especially) and they configured our comp and goals accordingly.  Xerox allowed me to learn and succeed from these  tough times.  It toughened me for sure.  Perhaps if I had experienced “Good / Better  Times” in those early days I may have been spoiled and left the industry later during  even tougher  times that would come later in my career at Ricoh.     

What did you like the most about your job in the eighties?         

The time that I spent at XRX in the late 70s/early 80s gave me the base knowledge of the industry and sales strategy.  I was fortunate enough to be hired by Ricoh in early 1981 when they were first forming their US operation. 

Again, some luck and happen stance (just like bumping into someone at a Football game) gave me the opportunity to be among the first American employees at Ricoh.  My group was tasked to create the Major Account program – FROM SCRATCH – and with no dealer network yet established except a handful in the East.  And only 2 very basic machines to sell ….   What did I like most? - the continual  LEARNING LEARNING LEARNING.  Some of it structured at various schools and meetings ...some OJT...some Trial and Error (errors really are the best lessons).   Learning was my mode at XRX (74-81) and it accelerated when we began to build Ricoh of America as it was called then.  Learning about how to craft a Major Account Program that would give dealers enough incentive to sell in to larger accounts ,often at less margin.  We built the program from a blank page  from the ground up. 

From 1981 -1984 we built the program that was known as RMAP based on input from key dealers we had recruited all across the US.  These were exciting times for the industry   A lot of time and money and effort was spent building a dealer channel that could compete directly against large established Direct sales companies like Xerox.  Our program was a hybrid and bringing it to birth and helping to attract dealers with it was one of the most satisfying things at Ricoh in the 80s and watching Dealers use it to grow their business in the Major Account arena was rewarding.       

What did you dislike the most about your job in the eighties?

What I liked least was my “30 day” mindset...which may have been an asset as well.  What do I mean?  I have always said sales , especially copier sales in those days  “30 day business”.   Making quota each month...month after month in a game that hopefully had endless “months “ like a ballgame that had endless innings….or in the case of my  mindset, my career was only as long as the next 30 days.  Its the age old question that each month started with when you had to say to yourself, especially after a strong month, “THAT WAS LAST MONTH – WHAT HAVE YOU DONE LATELY?”  I always compared it to what many actors attribute to what keeps them sharp, keeps their edge to perform.   Its a  kind of a fear..nervousness....stage fright if you will.  In this business there were No guarantees. No contract.   I saw my career as a string of as many  “30 day innings”  that I could put together.  Mine ended  450^th inning when I retired the end of June 2013 ….I feel like I won and I know I left it all on the field.    

What was the compensation plan like, was there a salary, what is just commissions or was there a mix of salary and commissions?                  

 My starting comp at XRX was a small salary and commission opportunity, Initially about a 25/75 mix paid monthly.  We did not get paid for supply sales.   We were paid commission based on a “point based” quota system.   A “point value” was assigned to each transaction which at the time were only  rental...no outright sale...no leasing those came later.  It was like being paid piecework in a factory based on the point value XRX assigned to the “sale”.  There wasn’t  an  actual dollar value, revenue or profit,  that  your sale might yield.  In hindsight I did not like that since it didn’t seem like real business, but more like arcade rewards.  When you had a territory of named accounts and a machine base you were responsible for all  the rental machines you had in your base.  If a customer you were assigned canceled a unit outright the point value of that cancellation was subtracted from your “points” earned that month.    This was true whether that was a machine was sold by you or not.  Someone years before had earned the commission for it ...but if they canceled that rental , you paid for it.  That didn’t seem fair so I have to add that to my “dislike list”.

How did you go about finding new business, and what was your favorite of those methods and why?         

 As a new territory rep in the 70s and without base it was all about pounding the streets and making cold calls , up and down those mostly tall buildings south of Canal St.  Keep knocking on doors , collecting info...and if you got names and any machine info you'd keep record of it for future callback.  Early version of SalesForce.  But in those days it wasn't always looking for and finding competitors machines and proposing yours.  Many businesses still  did not have a copier .  Your job became like a traveling evangelist probing people to find their document  based needs and  find a need that would justify a copier.   I had a book I called my “FAB” book.  It was a binder that had some visual aids of how copier could be used to help a business be more productive ….samples of typical things businesses used to communicate and if a copier might be used to improve the process.  FAB   Feature Advantage Benefit…Fabulous !

What was the first sales book that you read that and what did you take away from it?

I am not sure you’d  call it a Sales Book.   I was never really big on so called Sales  Books.    I would say my first book that helped me in sales  ( and life)  was/is  Norman Vincent Peale’s “ The Power of Positive Thinking”.   I’ve read it more than once.  Some parts were / are  especially helpful when ithings were tough. 

My greatest other  “sales book” and inspirations are the many biographies that I read even to this day.  One favorite is Rudy Giuliani’s “Leadership” since it chronicles how he turned around a New York City  that I was intimately familiar with.  I had a front seat that witnessed the ineptitude and waste of the NYC Government of the 1970s.   His book is  great template on how someone might take a terrible sales territory and “ rebuild it “ using some basic management techniques: identify the problem / measure it / fix it / and monitor the results.   Giuliani turned New York into a great city doing basic blocking and tackling and holding people accountable.  No magic.      

 What type of car did you use for your demonstrations and how many demonstrations would you perform in a week demonstration?          

        My car was a “Subway Car” and this is what a graffiti defaced subway car looked like during my time riding them in NYC.  Pretty sad...I refer you back to Rudy and why they no longer look that way.  Xerox machines in the 70s did not lend themselves to be carted around the streets.  The logistics of NY downtown were difficult for sure.   My “demos” were both ones done in our office demo room , which I might do 1- 2 a week on good weeks and the most effective demos were on site pre-qualified 30 day trials.  At any given time I might have 3 or 4 on site demos.  My Close rate on those were usually 1 in 4.   I was just OK at best.

Can you tell us a couple of  funny story about selling copiers in the seventies?         

One of my first sales was at a small law firm at 120 Wall St. by the East River. The Managing Partner told me all about their copier, which they weren’t happy with,  in his heavy Brooklyn accent.  He said it was “Copy-uh Two”,   I’d been thru some good competitive product training ( there weren’t that many products  to know back in 1975)  I immediately knew it was the notorious roll-fed IBM Copier2.  I was well versed about its pricing – generous limitless  “Top Stop” Pricing where the customer did not pay a click charge for any volume over 40,000. 

I diligently got the key info I needed like volume - how many rolls of paper they used - key documents etc. I prepared a very nice side-by-side comparison of the IBM 2 versus the just released Xerox 3100.  Speeds and Feeds. Pricing and the  “FABs” for the law firm and the inevitable monthly savings that every proposal always seemed to project. When I met with the Partner and walked him thru my proposal, I had included a picture of an IBM II that I had cut / pasted from SpecCheck (do they still publish that ?).  The partner cut me off before I could go further and said  - “let me show you our machine ”.  He walked me back to the copy room and there stood his machine - an “Olivetti COPIA 200 “. I was flabbergasted and red faced.  I didn’t even know that Olivetti made copiers.  He actually laughed about it when I explained  the mix-up.  He allowed me to revise my proposal.  Ultimately they rented a Xerox 4000 for much more $ than their Italian job.  It was my biggest sale to date as a territory rep.          

 What is the biggest problem you seeing facing the industry today?            

I retired 6 years ago I still keep up with the industry via your web page (Print4Pay Hotel),  /Cannata Report/ Industry Analyst / LinkedIn/ plus former colleagues and dealer friends that I keep in touch with.    Its in my blood.  There seems to be a bit of a witching hour of things like declining click volume, aging of dealer owner founders and succession and decreasing size of the dealer channel via consolidation, declining revenue/profit and finding young sales reps who can / who want to do what may be one of the hardest jobs they might find.   The last elephant I see in the room is the question- what  will this industry once known as “The Copier Business” become over the next decade.  To that I have to admit I have no clue. Solutions...Production...Wide Format...Grand Format...MPS...Mega Dealers...Direct...     

If you had to would you do it all over again, if so what would you change?                          

I would ….I certainly can’t complain about the very good living I was able to make, the very good people I was able to meet and to work with, the many good customers and the many successful dealers that  I remain friends with. The bonuses were the travel to every state in the US as well as fabulous dealer award trips I was able to host around the world.  It was my honor to work at Ricoh as the company launched in the US and grew into an industry leader during my time there.  I was pleased to get my “life experience MBA “ working alongside many of the Ricoh Japanese who taught me more than I could have imagined.   I think I was able to add value to a few things and represent the US market and what made It unique vs other world markets.

What’s the one piece of knowledge that you’d like to share with new reps entering our industry?          

There is so much to learn, to know; especially today vs. 40+ years ago when I was a scared rookie looking for my first sale and my “30 day Mindset”.   The sales game does have some “constants” regardless of the product or locale or company.  The one thing I picked up in working with much more talented sales people was : KEEP YOUR PRIMARY FOCUS ON THE CUSTOMER.  I termed   “GETTING IN TO THE CUSTOMERS 99%”.  All that simply means is that the job of the sales person is to know as much as she can about the customer’s business, the customer’s problem, the customer’s priorities.  If you can immerse yourself in the customer’s business quickly and deeply and sincerely, you will find some kind of a “hook”  for your product.  They will sell your product for you.  You become their guide.  

If you'd like to reach out to Chuck you can check out his Linkedin profile here and make sure you send him a message!

-=Good Selling=-